Hi!
It makes interesting reading.
Russian spy: 'More known' about substance involved
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It makes interesting reading.
[QUOTE="terrym, post: 745796, member: 13201.............]
If countries like North Korea can assassinate senior members of its country's elite on foreign soil with the limited resources it can muster, what is stopping a country like Russia with the resources it possesses carrying out this sort of operation. ...........[/QUOTE]
Precisely! :thumb:
Now please explain exactly why the UK (with at least the same resources as Russia and a hell of a lot more that North Korea) is in anyway different.
BTW
The UK doesn't have a great record when considering the use of Chemical Weapons.
The UK first used the poison gas Chlorine in November 1915. This was despite the fact that the UK was a signatory of The Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 which specifically forbade the use of "poison gas shells" in warfare.
In typical British fashion they:
The facility at Porton Down is still active over 100 years later. It is the "research facility" that has identified the nerve gas that was used at Salisbury; which is less that ten miles away from the Porton Down Research Facility.
So, anyone who wonders if there may be some kind of link between the two is "deluded" are they?
At the time Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands, the UK was spending about £4 billion every year on Security Services that employed upwards of 6,000 people. The official line has always been that NONE of these people, OR their contacts, noticed or reported the mobilisation of a 20,000 strong Invasion Force by a country that was known to he hostile to UK interests in the South Atlantic. The Argentinians then had to transport the 20,000 men and their equipment over 1,000 miles of ocean and still no one saw them.
So, if someone wonders how such a thing can happen they are not only "deluded: but "living in fairyland" as well?
I think that the referenced to Mata Pari is spot on; because the lady concerned (Margaretha Geertruida Zelle) was convicted as being a "Double Agent" by the French and then executed.
According to the reports, Sergei Skripal was also a "Double Agent" who was caught by the Russians and then swapped.
What if ex-spy Sergei Skripal was a "Triple Agent"? The Russians didn't execute him when they discovered his betrayal and they allowed his daughter to visit him. If he was a "Triple Agent" they definitely wouldn't kill him.
However, what would happen if the UK's Intelligence Services discovered that he was a "Triple Agent" and that his daughter's visit was so that she could transport information back to Russia?
Please don't tell me that it couldn't happen. The UK Security Services have a lot of experience in running "Double Agents" so it would be incredibly naive to think that their counterparts in Russia couldn't turn the tables on them and run a "Triple Agent".
"Deluded?" "Living in Fairyland?" How about "Bringing a healthy amount of scepticism to what it being presented as a fact?"
:UKflag:
If countries like North Korea can assassinate senior members of its country's elite on foreign soil with the limited resources it can muster, what is stopping a country like Russia with the resources it possesses carrying out this sort of operation. ...........[/QUOTE]
Precisely! :thumb:
Now please explain exactly why the UK (with at least the same resources as Russia and a hell of a lot more that North Korea) is in anyway different.
BTW
The UK doesn't have a great record when considering the use of Chemical Weapons.
The UK first used the poison gas Chlorine in November 1915. This was despite the fact that the UK was a signatory of The Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 which specifically forbade the use of "poison gas shells" in warfare.
In typical British fashion they:
- Sidestepped the Hague Conventions by pointing out that although the use of "poison gas shells" was prohibited there was nothing to stop that releasing a gas from a cylinder.
- Formed Army Units named "Special Gas Companies" and then forbade the troops to call their new weapon "gas" - it had to be referred to as an “accessory”.
The facility at Porton Down is still active over 100 years later. It is the "research facility" that has identified the nerve gas that was used at Salisbury; which is less that ten miles away from the Porton Down Research Facility.
So, anyone who wonders if there may be some kind of link between the two is "deluded" are they?
At the time Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands, the UK was spending about £4 billion every year on Security Services that employed upwards of 6,000 people. The official line has always been that NONE of these people, OR their contacts, noticed or reported the mobilisation of a 20,000 strong Invasion Force by a country that was known to he hostile to UK interests in the South Atlantic. The Argentinians then had to transport the 20,000 men and their equipment over 1,000 miles of ocean and still no one saw them.
So, if someone wonders how such a thing can happen they are not only "deluded: but "living in fairyland" as well?
I think that the referenced to Mata Pari is spot on; because the lady concerned (Margaretha Geertruida Zelle) was convicted as being a "Double Agent" by the French and then executed.
According to the reports, Sergei Skripal was also a "Double Agent" who was caught by the Russians and then swapped.
What if ex-spy Sergei Skripal was a "Triple Agent"? The Russians didn't execute him when they discovered his betrayal and they allowed his daughter to visit him. If he was a "Triple Agent" they definitely wouldn't kill him.
However, what would happen if the UK's Intelligence Services discovered that he was a "Triple Agent" and that his daughter's visit was so that she could transport information back to Russia?
Please don't tell me that it couldn't happen. The UK Security Services have a lot of experience in running "Double Agents" so it would be incredibly naive to think that their counterparts in Russia couldn't turn the tables on them and run a "Triple Agent".
"Deluded?" "Living in Fairyland?" How about "Bringing a healthy amount of scepticism to what it being presented as a fact?"
:UKflag:
Saisonator
Landlord.
I wish we had the same attitude when it comes to dealing with traitors, the only thing is it's quite a reckless way of doing the job.
@Dutto
Please spare me a rambling random history lesson about things that were happening 100 years ago or even 30 years ago about UK involvement in subterfuge and wrong doing, especially since such illustrations do little to counter my point about Russian power seeking in 2018.
Whilst without doubt the UK foreign policy is not lily white in the 1Q 21st century we are not in the same league as the Russians when it comes to meddling and manipulation of the world order.
And I might be very naive but I would still give more credence to what comes out of No 10, whatever lot are in power, rather than something that comes from a Kremlin spokesperson when their foreign policy is in question.
Please spare me a rambling random history lesson about things that were happening 100 years ago or even 30 years ago about UK involvement in subterfuge and wrong doing, especially since such illustrations do little to counter my point about Russian power seeking in 2018.
Whilst without doubt the UK foreign policy is not lily white in the 1Q 21st century we are not in the same league as the Russians when it comes to meddling and manipulation of the world order.
And I might be very naive but I would still give more credence to what comes out of No 10, whatever lot are in power, rather than something that comes from a Kremlin spokesperson when their foreign policy is in question.
Er ... Capital Punishment hasn't been allowed in Russia since 1999 and a Russian Court sentenced Sergei Skripal to a term in jail.
So, the "wish that we had the same attitude when dealing with traitors" has already been granted.:thumb:
How about the injuries caused to Sergei Skripal's daughter? Do you agree with those as well?
Surely, it's impossible to praise one violent act and then condemn another violent act; especially when both acts are illegal in both countries and committed at the same time.
An old Derbyshire saying is ...
"All t'worlds queer apart from me and thee; and I worry about thee!"
:UKflag:
I simply refer you to George Santayana who said:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santayana
True indeed.
Sadly whilst most of the 'civilised' world seems to have dragged itself into the 21st century and has grudgingly learned from history, the Russians seem to be looking back to their policies of the mid 20th century for their inspiration.
basically saying anyone not just russia could have done it...
BeerCat
Landlord.
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@Dutto They have been poisoning us and using us as guinea pigs for years. This was in the 60's. Imagine what they are doing to us know.
Millions were in germ war test,Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
PORTON DOWN - THE UNWITTING VICTIMS http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series1/porton-down.shtml
Millions were in germ war test,Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
PORTON DOWN - THE UNWITTING VICTIMS http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series1/porton-down.shtml
SWMBO has just told me that, according to something she has just heard on the TV, both Sergei Skripal's wife and son have died under "suspicious circumstances" in the past couple of years. :wave:
I've worked with some of the ex-servicemen who were involved in the Porton Down tests. An ex-navy Instrument Technician swore that since the "Test" he had never been the same. Apparently, he had been gassed to almost being unconscious and then revived with an antidote and asked to lie down in a bed for two days whilst the scientists monitored all his essential functions.
Poor bugger. He only did it so he could get extra leave to go home and see his family! :headbang:
BeerCat
Landlord.
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My grandfather was offshore fishing along their admitted spray path and one of the effects of cadmium poisoning was said to be throat cancer which he dies off as far as i remember. Its makes me wonder. And then there is them driving a van with a sprayer on top pumping out stuff around the Bedfordshire countryside just to see what happened. I wonder if they collected birth defect data from that. And this is what they have declassified, imagine what else they wont admit to.
Here is another article where they blame the threat of the Russians for using the UK public as "chemical warfare guinea pigs". http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...l-and-biological-warfare-trials-10376411.html
Hi!
My brother has drawn my attention to this article:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arch...iraqi-wmd-scam/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
My brother has drawn my attention to this article:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arch...iraqi-wmd-scam/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Here's some lovely quotes from The Sun ...
Under the Headline ...
It starts out ...
Went on with ...
Then ...
So:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/58128...mir-putin-russia-spy-poisoning-labour-puppet/
(*)
The Sun was at the forefront of published media articles that criticised Mr. Blair for making the decision to go to war on unsupported evidence that Iraq had many WMDs and the facilities to produce them; now The Sun are attacking Mr. Corbyn for not taking action after being presented with similar unsupported evidence!
Personally, I believe that certain elements of the Russian Government are responsible for this and other acts of murder, both in the UK and other countries; but there is a huge gap between a persons "beliefs" and "corroborated facts". :thumb:
Under the Headline ...
"Putin's Puppet Jeremy Corbyn branded Vladimir Putin’s puppet after refusing to accept Russia was behind nerve agent attack."
It starts out ...
"JEREMY Corbyn faced open mutiny last night after he cast doubt on whether Russia was really behind the Salisbury nerve agent outrage."
Went on with ...
"Instead of agreeing with Theresa May to blame Vladimir Putin’s regime for the nerve agent attack, Mr Corbyn’s spokesman Seumas Milne deepened the anger further by casting aspersions on MI5 and MI6’s reliability on WMDs."
Then ...
“The Russian Government has been given an opportunity to provide a credible explanation as to how its nerve agent stock came to be used in this attack. It’s something they haven’t even tried to do so therefore they have to face the consequences.”
So:
- Why is the Leader of the Opposition expected to "agree" with the PM? (The secret is in the latter part of Mr Corbyn's Title!)
- Was it not MI5 and MI6 that told Mr. Blair that Saddam Hussein had a lot of WMD's? If it was then the information wasn't accurate and Mr. Blair has been castigated (*) for acting upon what turned out to be erroneous information.
- If the Russian Government wasn't responsible for the commission of the crime, then have they been given adequate information and time to conduct an enquiry?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/58128...mir-putin-russia-spy-poisoning-labour-puppet/
(*)
The Sun was at the forefront of published media articles that criticised Mr. Blair for making the decision to go to war on unsupported evidence that Iraq had many WMDs and the facilities to produce them; now The Sun are attacking Mr. Corbyn for not taking action after being presented with similar unsupported evidence!
Personally, I believe that certain elements of the Russian Government are responsible for this and other acts of murder, both in the UK and other countries; but there is a huge gap between a persons "beliefs" and "corroborated facts". :thumb:
When I was in the Royal Marines, they were regularly asking for volunteers to go to Porton Down for voluntary trials. From memory they paid around double pay for the period spent there. I knew two guys who went there and they ended up permanently bald.
Saisonator
Landlord.
That was the reckless part I was not impressed with.
My issue is with people who actively plot against our country, but it appears the concept of traitor doesn't even exist anymore. Just wave people back into the country like they've just had a beach holiday in Turkey.
Saisonator
Landlord.
Sadly the young are not educated in certain parts of history, probably due to the left wing teaching establishment.
So we will probably have to go through a Marxist Corbyn/Momentum government and the damage it will do to society.
I'm relatively young and was introduced to horseshoe theory on political ideology through education. Far more accurate than simple left/right thinking.
If there is one thing history teaches us is that there is little difference between each end of the political spectrum.
Unfortunately, it seems some have lost their ability to critically assess and reason, and rely on lazy assertions and simplistic soundbites.
If there is one thing history teaches us is that there is little difference between each end of the political spectrum.
Unfortunately, it seems some have lost their ability to critically assess and reason, and rely on lazy assertions and simplistic soundbites.
Hi!
When was the last time you were in a school staff room? There's just as broad a spectrum of political views as in the population in general. The teaching establishment is not left wing, far from it.
Hi!
I suspect it has been thus for decades, if not centuries.
EDIT - ignore, for now, the subject matter, and feast upon the intelligence of the great British public.
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