Saison: pH too high.

[jtreach]

Hey all, tonight I brewed a Saison and for the first time I measured the pH of my mash. Unfortunately it turned out to be around 6.2 which is way too high.

My questions are:

-What will this do to this particular brew?
-Does this explain some off flavours I've had with darker beer brews?
-Also, what should I do to counter this - Lactic acid?

Thank you all!!

Recipe:

Ingredients (11L):
Pilsner = 1.75kg
Wheat Malt = 0.45kg
Rye = 0.3kg
Honey = 0.1kg
12g Tettnanger (at start, 4.5%)
17g Tettnanger (10mins from end, 4.5%)
Add Honey (10mins from end)

Lallemand Belle Saison yeast

Brew in the bag method.

 

[Ajhutch]

Paging Dr @strange-steve!

6.2 sounds very high. Do you use tap water and is it particularly hard? If you’re using tap water it’s worth investing in a Salifert kit which makes it dead easy to test the alkalinity. You can then adjust using lactic or CRS based on the dosages in the excellent water treatment thread by the above mentioned Steve.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/beginners-guide-to-water-treatment.64822/

In brewing a stout the dark malts in the mash would tend to bring the pH down which all else being equal would be bringing you closer tomor into the ideal range so I’m not sure that’s your issue there

 

[jtreach]

Yes, the water round here is really hard so I guess it's to somewhat be expected. This being the first time I've measured the pH though it was just a suspicion that I might be a way off before. I'll have to look into it some more for my next batch.

 

[Harbey]

I brewed this weekend and also tested PH for the first time (new PH tester). I was at 5.6 which didn't seem too bad but I still added some 5.2 stabiliser which seemed to do absolutely nothing!

 

[jtreach]

I brewed this weekend and also tested PH for the first time (new PH tester). I was at 5.6 which didn't seem too bad but I still added some 5.2 stabiliser which seemed to do absolutely nothing!

Yeah looking at other posts people haven't said great things about that stuff. I just checked my water supplier's report, apparently hardness here is at 286ppm.

 

[Ajhutch]

Hardness isn’t the same as alkalinity (the latter is what’s relevant for brewing) but there is a relationship. Definitely recommend getting a Salifert kit and look into treating your water

 

[JonBrew]

To offer an answer to your question - What will this do to this particular brew? - I don't believe it will have a great deal of impact at all. I understand that the pH is most important to the mashing process, i.e. enzyme activity and efficiency etc, and to a lesser extent in the boil. Yeast has an incredible buffering capacity which means that even without acid adjustment you'll likely find the pH of your finished beer will be well within acceptable parameters.

I know this stuff isn't meant to be taken as gospel but I'm a keen follower of the Brulosophy blog and they've done a few experiments on pH which make for interesting reading. They've generally found that pH has very little noticeable impact on the finished beer, whilst mineral additions make a much greater difference.

Some will argue that pH and mineral additions go hand in hand and I do get that but, personally, if you are just starting out with water adjustment I'd suggest focusing more on mineral additions to get the right calcium, chloride and sulphate levels etc, and worry less about getting pH spot on.

 

[Ghillie]

That's high!

First off, try and obtain a water report. They're normally free.

Once you have a report, input the numbers into a calculator. I suggest EZ Water Calc for starters as it's very simple to understand. Bru'n Water comes highly regarded, but it's quite intimidating initially.

Lactic acid is good for bringing down mash pH. Also, additons like Gypsum will help also - but you'll see this when you start playing with calculators.

I'm sure the beer will be good anyway.

 

[Sadfield]

The beer will likely be fine. Incorrect mash pH can have an impact on the flavour, appearance and stability of a beer, making it not quite as good as it should be. However, many of the benefits of mashing at the correct pH relate to improving the brewing process.

I like this article regarding pH.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_pH_affects_brewing

 

[Saisonator]

You can't brew that grain bill effectively with hard water. It needs acid additions.

 

[Sadfield]

You can't brew that grain bill effectively with hard water. It needs acid additions.

I've read the traditional approach would actually be to offset the carbonates with calcium, usually Gypsum.

 

[Saisonator]

You would need a serious amount of gypsum to that. Do you think they may have boiled off some of the alkalinity too.

 

[jtreach]

Thank you all for the comments so far. You've definitely given me a lot to look into! I managed to get an OG of 1047 out of this in the end and reckon my efficiency was actually okay at around 70%.

It's bubbling away pretty ferociously already this morning.

 

[Sadfield]

You would need a serious amount of gypsum to that. Do you think they may have boiled off some of the alkalinity too.

Possibly. Although high sulphate levels would probably fit with the crisp bitterness and assertive hop presence associated with the style.

 

[AdeDunn]

If it's any comfort, my first ever AG was a Saison (Electric India clone), and I live in a hard water area. My brew house efficiency suffered for it (that and just not having a handle on doughing in or stirring at that point, or a good enough boil) (about 54% or something like that) and I had to add DME to bring up the OG. However, the beer was delicious just the same, even if the yeast did attenuate much lower than expected.... lol

 

[Sadfield]

If it's any comfort, my first ever AG was a Saison (Electric India clone), and I live in a hard water area. My brew house efficiency suffered for it (that and just not having a handle on doughing in or stirring at that point, or a good enough boil) (about 54% or something like that) and I had to add DME to bring up the OG. However, the beer was delicious just the same, even if the yeast did attenuate much lower than expected.... lol

My first brew was a Saison too, similar water with no treatment. Turned out fine, except too strong as, for some unknown reason, I didn't think water evaporated over an hours boil.

 

[jtreach]

There's still hope for the flavour then! :]