Saison yeast officiando's

Discussion in 'Grain, Hops, Yeast & Water' started by Hoddy, May 14, 2019.

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  1. May 14, 2019 #1

    Hoddy

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    I was wondering if anyone on here has tried the CML saison yeast yet and if so what liquid yeast from the usual suspects of whitelabs, wyeast et all you would compare it to?

    Or if not all is it any good? Is it a Belgian type clove strain or is a more french style strain?

    All input gratefully received.
     
  2. May 15, 2019 #2

    dan125

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    What liquid strain did you use in the last saison you sent me? You want a dried strain similar to that, as the beer was cracking.
    Does the name 'Lille' saison imply its a French version??
     
  3. May 15, 2019 #3

    Hoddy

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    I think so. Tbh that’s what I’m looking for. A replacement for 3711. I’m hoping Lille is a good alternative.
     
  4. May 15, 2019 #4

    Oneflewover

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    Out of interest why do you want a replacement for 3711? Convenience? Many recipes I see suggest belle Saison as an alternative....
     
  5. May 16, 2019 #5

    MickDundee

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    I believe a few people have had issues with poor attenuation with the CML Saison yeast. I’ve only ever used the MJ saison yeast myself so I’m probably not much help.
     
  6. May 16, 2019 #6

    Sadfield

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    I suspect anything labelled French or Lille Saison originates from Brasserie Thiriez in Esquelbecq , about 35 miles from Lille.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  7. May 16, 2019 #7

    brewhaha

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    I've used the CML yeast a couple of times now & I'd describe it as like a mild 3711. I did need to rouse it on both occasions to get it to attenuate fully as well.
     
  8. May 17, 2019 #8

    Hoddy

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    You are bang on as Brasserie Thiriez is where the origins of 3711 are said to come from. So i am hoping that this lille from CML is potentially from the same "family" of strain. If at least a variant that is able to be dried like this.
     
  9. May 17, 2019 #9

    Hoddy

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    That is encouraging to hear. Thanks for your input.
     
  10. May 17, 2019 #10

    Hoddy

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    I am doing some recipe development for a commercial brewery (they aren't big enough to use wet yeasts, a yeast brink or culture their own) so a viable dry yeast Saison strain that gives the characteristics we are looking for is what i'm up to wink...
     
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  11. May 17, 2019 #11

    Sadfield

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    That sounds like an interesting project. Have you considered MJ M29 French Saison? It'll be available in commercial packs. Could be worth giving CML and MJ a call to inquire what the source is. I believe MJ are made by SPL in Ellesmere Port, who are part of the Bevie group.
     
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  12. May 17, 2019 #12

    Hoddy

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    CML haven't been able to tell me where they source theirs from yet. I have brewed before with MJ hence why i want to give the CML a go. But my plan is to do a comparison brew of the MJ against the CML to see which has the profile we want. Especially as this is with a view to it potentially being cask Saison.
     
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  13. May 17, 2019 #13

    chesters-mild

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    Try to cultivate a starter from a bottle of Saison, it's not as hard as I thought it would be when I tried it, and it worked very well.
    I've just bottled a Saison made with MJ M29 and it finally stopped at 1.003 - yes 1.003 I know this is correct as I use a 'Finishing Hydrometer'
    scaled from .0990 to 1.020 so the scale is wide and easy to read
    Another member said 'MJ M29 is a beast' - he is sure right there
    Cheers
     
  14. May 17, 2019 #14

    Sadfield

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    1.003 isn't unusual for Saison yeast, most are super-attenuators due to a being a variant of Saccharomyces that excrete enzymes outside of their cell structure.
     
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  15. May 17, 2019 #15

    Hoddy

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    Whereas i appreciate your helpful enthusiasm. I have wrangled yeast once or twice myself.

    I must point out i am doing some trials for this to be brewed commercially at a 500L (3bbl) to 1000L (6bbl) length. So unless you are able to reliably culture up a pitchable quantity for 3 to 6 bbl and supply that to me on a regular basis for less than i can buy it (£110 ex VAT for 500l pitch) then a dried source of yeast is what i am after. Hence exploring dried yeasts and doing comparisons to wet exactly for that reason.
     
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  16. May 17, 2019 #16

    strange-steve

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    MJ29 is very similar to 3711, @Ajhutch recently sent me a saison fermented with the MJ and I was certain it was 3711. I was really pleasantly surprised and will defo be using it in future.
     
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  17. May 17, 2019 #17

    Hoddy

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    Hmmm that is very interesting. I defo think there is a need to do a comparison with MJ and CML.

    CML confirmed today that the Lille dry is a yeast made by a company and exclusively for them in UK and three other breweries in Europe and the world.
     
  18. May 17, 2019 #18

    Sadfield

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    I really should get around to doing a split batch with MJ29, Belle Saison and BE134. I've liked all three. I think it would be good to compare and then perhaps work out a house blend. So many brews, so little time.
     
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  19. May 17, 2019 #19

    Ajhutch

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    I’ve used MJ29 a couple of times now but not CML so can’t really help, however one thought occurs to me. I remember the big CML thread when the Lille Saison came out and a few people were surprised that it took some time and/or needed rousing, which was very different from most experiences with CML’s pale ale yeasts. I understand that the Belgian Saison strains from White Labs and Wyeast are famed for a ‘stall’ which some think is to do with them being pressure sensitive. I don’t know whether this is the same phenomenon that happens with the CML yeast. Conversely my experience of MJ29 is that it goes fast and keeps going. I appreciate flavour is the most important factor but easy use is probably also important in a commercial environment.

    Best of luck, sounds like a fascinating project. And if you ever need any, ahem, independent opinions, you know where to find us!
     
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  20. May 17, 2019 #20

    dad_of_jon

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    MJ, lallemand Belle Saison and Bulldog B16 used - all were good my fav was MJ's cos I'm an MJ fan boi :cheers3:
     

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