Scottish Ale to test attenuation of Wyeast 1728

Discussion in 'Grain, Hops, Yeast & Water' started by Zephyr259, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Nov 5, 2017 #1

    Zephyr259

    Zephyr259

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    Sharing this as it's a bit of an experiment and all the information on the web about this strain is a couple of years old now.

    I got this strain early in the year, before I got a fridge to ferment in, because my house is cold and other yeasts don't seem to like sitting at 16c (according to the lcd strip). This Scottish ale yeast is good for 13c according to Wyeast and will give 69 - 73% average attenuation. The only time I've used it I got a massive 86% apparent attenuation after mashing at 66c (1.043 to 1.006). Scottish ales are meant to have a low attenuation to leave more malt character and body to the beer, but this isn't going too happen if the yeast attenuates into the 80s. Some go ogling shows a few discussions on too his yeast and it often seems to give this level of attenuation.

    So I'm going to brew a Scottish ale as per the attached recipe, I've altered the average attenuation from 71% to 82% based on my previous brew which changes an estimated fg of 1.018 to 1.013. I'm mashing at the top end of spectrum to see how low the attenuation can go and I've aimed for a middling gravity as that way I've still got a decent abv if it over or under attenuates.

    Does anyone have any comments on my idea and or recipe? I was going to try out reducing a couple of litres of wort on the stove to mimic the kettle caramelisation common in the style. However, could this affect the fermenatbility of the wort? I believe it would be mostly mallard reactions and not true caramelisation so the fermenatbility shouldn't change. Should I drop this step since it represents an unknown in my experiment?

    A bunch of people seem to have liked this strain as a house strain because it is temperature and alcohol tolerant, flocculates strongly and apparently attenuates well while still leaving a lot of malt character. I can add that it doesn't see to diminish hops since my galaxy pale ale is quite the hoppy brew.

    Thanks.
     

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  2. Nov 5, 2017 #2

    MyQul

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    I had what I believe was a wee heavy last week for the first time in 'spoons and really enjoyed it. Scottish ale seems to be right up my street, very malty and not very hoppy. Once I gotten my two house beer reciepe's down I plan on having a go at a wee heavy.

    I'm planning on having a go at boiling down wort/caramalization for my house bitter too as bitter is another style this is used in. As I understand it though, I thought it was true caramalization and not just mostly malliard reaction?

    Iirc @IanM is quite keen on the Scottish Ale yeast too and uses it as his house strain

    I shall be following your thread with interest
     
  3. Nov 5, 2017 #3

    IainM

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    I haven't used it yet but I've ordered some to do a brew with Chevallier malt, as the clean ferment and bringing out the malt sounded like it would be a good yeast to showcase the Chevallier. I'll be sure to post my mash temperature and attenuation once it is done.
     
  4. Nov 6, 2017 #4

    MyQul

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    Perhaps it wasnt you then. It was someone who said they used it as their house yeast
     
  5. Nov 6, 2017 #5

    Sadfield

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    I use it a quite a bit, although the white labs version (WLP028) which is reputed to be the same strain from mcewans. I haven't my figures to hand, but it does often attenuate down more than the stated figures, in my experience. OG and wort composition play a part. Having said that, sugars and sweetness aren't the same thing and it still leaves a perceptible sweeter, maltier flavour than other yeasts do at the same attenuation.

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  6. Nov 6, 2017 #6

    MyQul

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    Might have been you then Sadfield. :thumb:
     
  7. Nov 6, 2017 #7

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

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    This twitter conversation I read the other week may be of interest to you.
     

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  8. Nov 6, 2017 #8

    IainM

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    Thanks for that, very interesting. After this thread I was going to mash high and/or reduce the volume to make something heavier to compensate for the higher attenuation than I previously expected, but now you say that it stays sweet and malty despite the attenuation, and the twitter thread says that I'll need to add more bittering hops. Hmmm.... I guess I'll just play about in beersmith and come up with something
     
  9. Nov 6, 2017 #9

    Zephyr259

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    Thanks for the comments guys, the thing that started this plan was a conversation with IainM warning him that the yeast may attenuate more than he expects.

    I think traditionally if you heated a kettle with direct flame you'd get hotspots which would burn a bit and that would be true caramelisation. Boiling a pan of wort until thick isn't likely to have the same intense spots of heat although I am using gas so maybe. Sugar doesn't caramelise until around 160c but varies with sugar type, I'm not sure I'd get a wort solution concentrated enough to reach those temperatures but I could easily be wrong as it's just a case of boiling away enough water.

    Going to have to rearrange my brew plan for this beer, was going to be a saison then a bock but I think I'll make the Scottish before the bock.

    I read an interesting theory brulosophy, they tested 2 beers mashed at 63c and 71c which finished at 1.004 and 1.014 and couldn't be told apart implying that the fg doesn't have as big an effect on body and maltiness as expected. The theory was that mashing high requires a higher OG to maintain the same abv, as such there would be more malt used in making the beer with the lower attenuation resulting in more flavour. More malt in same volume of beer equaling more flavour and body. Sounds sensible and is probably a part of the Scottish ale style.
     
  10. Nov 6, 2017 #10

    Sadfield

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    Have just looked through my brewing records, and although hard to pin down due to so many variables, it does look like I get lower (75-77%) attenuation on beers with an OG above 1.060 with WLP028. Anything below and it appears to rip through it nearer to 85% attenuation. Probably worth noting this is from a data set of 7 brews with this yeast, so hardly conclusive.
     
  11. Nov 15, 2017 #11

    IainM

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    I just put my brew on for this. I made a 2L starter and tested the spent wort. Unfortunately, I broke my hydrometer so didn't take an OG, but 200g DME in 2L should be 1.032. The FG of the spent wort was 1.003, giving an attenuation in the region of 90%!!! What a beast.
     
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  12. Nov 15, 2017 #12

    Sadfield

    Sadfield

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    There would have been a massive overpitch from a packet of yeast in a 2L starter, so possibly not indicative of what will happen in the FV.

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  13. Nov 21, 2017 #13

    IainM

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    Well, I just took a sample after 6 days in the fv and the beer has dropped from 1.042 to 1.006, so 85% attenuation so far, though I think it has finished. Either way, attenuation is waaaaay higher than what Wyeast say.
     
  14. Nov 22, 2017 #14

    Zephyr259

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    Thanks for the update. Sounds very much like my pale ale, almost identical gravities. Hope the Chevalier malt is good.
     
  15. Nov 22, 2017 #15

    Sadfield

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    Thanks. More data to go on, and fits my hypothesis of high attenuation on lower gravities and also matches my experience of 85% attenuation. Have a fresh smackpack of this yeast for my next brews. Will post results when done.



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  16. Nov 23, 2017 #16

    Zephyr259

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    What are you planning to brew Sadfield? I've got a basic recipe thrown together 70% pale, 20% Munich, 10% amber, the amber might be a touch high, not used it before. Might add a touch of black malt for colour if I think it's going to be on the pale side. I could aim this one for 4-5% and be in the 1.050 range or go bigger to test out your experience with higher gravities. I'm brewing a bock in the next few days and it'll be mid-late December before I can brew again for this batch.
     

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