Scottish independence -

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We were bought and sold for English gold:
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

Scotland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain under the Stuart monarchy but were bankrupt due to their failed colony in Central America so needed English gold.
 

Chippy_Tea

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Probably why there is an independence movement in Scotland.
I don't blame them for wanting independence and good luck to them.
I get the impression they think England is full of people who have strong opinions about this and as I said the majority of us don't.
 

An Ankoù

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I don’t understand the need for Scotland to get permission from the UK government to have a referendum or leave. It seems to me that because Scotland joined the union voluntarily then they should be free to leave it. Any historians or lawyers out there who can clarify?
Yes. The question of Scottish independence is covered by the legal principle of "Hotel California".
 

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Have a look at any comment page/forum etc. Full of vitriol. Like a spurned lover.
The world is full of keyboard warriors those that want to cause trouble will gather in these sort of places.

I can honestly say its a subject that is never discussed where I live I guess your avarage English man/woman couldn't care less.
I will say again the subject never comes up in conversation outside of the forum i cannot remember ever discussing Scottish independence with family, friends or workmates.
 
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An Ankoù

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SWMBO is Scottish, all my in-laws are Scottish and half of our friends are Scottish!

It is a regular topic of discussion and ironically they are about 50/50 with regard to independence!

Me? “I know my place!” sums it up!
:hat:
I have not a drop of Scottish blood as far as I know (not that I'd be ashamed of it if I had) nor has my wife and naturally my children. I don't think I know many, if any Scottish folk very well and they numbered few amongst my colleagues. All this probably due to living a big chunk of my life in the southern-most extremes of England.
Nevertheless, the topic of Scottish independence comes up from time to time in our conversations as does the reunification of Ireland. We have some admiration for Nicola Sturgeon, who seems a sincere and competent stateswomen and who, having been elected on an overtly independentist ticket, seems to be doing her job intelligently and sensitively. I'm surprised to read that it's a topic that rarely rears it head in England, because our holidaymaker visitors from, say, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, as well as France, seem well clued up and eager for more news from us who, to them at least, appear to be somewhat closer to the action.
 

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the topic of Scottish independence comes up from time to time in our conversations as does the reunification of Ireland.
In my workplace the topic of Scottish indepdence comes up from time to time (when its on the news).

Brexit, Irish re-unification and Scottish independence was also brought up in conversation in recent holidays in France & Germany
 

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One of the reasons I left twitter, funnily enough I think my mental health has improved now I left all social media other than instagram.

I don't go on social media in my real name i see all the arguments it causes with family members and relatives i am glad i don't follow any of them on there,
 

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This is the only time it may get a mention no one is Scottish so no one seems to have a strong view either way.
No Scots in my workplace and the people I talked to on holidays were German & French.
Quite a lot of interest on the possible break up of the UK.

Surprised most English seem ambivelent. Didn't you fight a war over this.
Ye sure gave us a hard enough time about leaving the UK. 🙂
 

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I don't go on social media in my real name i see all the arguments it causes with family members and relatives i am glad i don't follow any of them on there,
I don’t go on social media at all. I was on Facebook for a couple of years but I came off it because I thought it was full of frivolous or narcissistic bolleaux. I also had a Twitter account which I never used because I just didn’t get it. My wife bought me a Twitter for Dummies book, which I read the first few pages of and gave it to a charity shop.
 

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I also had a Twitter account which I never used because I just didn’t get it. My wife bought me a Twitter for Dummies book, which I read the first few pages of and gave it to a charity shop.

I do have a twitter account which i use mainly for traffic info i follow a lot of the police twitter accounts which give almost instant road closure and accident updates handy if you are on the road as much as i am.
 

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So if Scotland leaves where are they gonna go?
They can't go north, cos Iceland is really territorial about their waters and won't want Scotland poaching on their tourism industry.
They can't go east, or they'll run over their oil and gas fields, west and south are obvs out....
Or are they going to really LEAVE and move somewhere warm, like off the Azores and catch a bit of sun and rebrand their tourism? Might take a it of time to acclimatise, with the stereotypical ginger milky white not really suited to full time sunny weather.
 

Tom Archer

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I don’t understand the need for Scotland to get permission from the UK government to have a referendum or leave. It seems to me that because Scotland joined the union voluntarily then they should be free to leave it. Any historians or lawyers out there who can clarify?

The history bit.

Scotland had attempted to start creating it's own empire, starting in a place called Darien, which was sandwiched between modern day Panama and Colombia. It didn't go well, and left Scotland financially desperate.

Already sharing a monarch, the Scots then petitioned England to form a Union, which was agreed. A union is not a partnership, one party cannot walk away, both have to agree to any future separation.

That's the legal bit.

The current situation is a bit farcical. The SNP know they won't win a second referendum, but have to keep saying they want one to keep their supporters on side. There was a time when they dreamt of an indolent socialist paradise funded by oil - a mini Venezuela - but that dream is long gone now.

The alternative is to build the Scottish economy with inward investment, making it an attractive destination for multi nationals and to wean Scotland off English dependence. Scotland has quite a lot going for it in terms of resources and inventiveness, it's not an impossible ask, but the blue blooded capitalism required is not the SNP's idea of fun.

The SNP make no attempt to make Scotland financially self-sufficient and able to function as an independent state. The financial black hole has always been bad, but fuelled by Covid the most recent data shows England bailing out Scotland to the tune of roughly £8,000 per Scot per annum.

So why doesn't Boris call the SNP's bluff?

There's a very good reason. Labour have no serious chance of forming a majority government in Westminster without Scottish seats. For the critical demographic who win or lose general elections, the 10% floating voters in the 10% most marginal seats - just 1% of the electorate - the Harlow electrician or the Worcester barmaid - the idea of Labour having to get into bed with the SNP to form a government is particularly toxic. It's the bogeyman that keeps on giving to the Conservatives.

The SNP don't really want another referendum - they know what happened to the Quebec separatists after they lost a second time, and Boris is entirely content for Sturgeon to pout and vent her spleen whilst denying her one.

- They are both very happy with the status quo, but will never admit it.
 

Brew_DD2

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The history bit.

Scotland had attempted to start creating it's own empire, starting in a place called Darien, which was sandwiched between modern day Panama and Colombia. It didn't go well, and left Scotland financially desperate.

Already sharing a monarch, the Scots then petitioned England to form a Union, which was agreed. A union is not a partnership, one party cannot walk away, both have to agree to any future separation.

That's the legal bit.

The current situation is a bit farcical. The SNP know they won't win a second referendum, but have to keep saying they want one to keep their supporters on side. There was a time when they dreamt of an indolent socialist paradise funded by oil - a mini Venezuela - but that dream is long gone now.

The alternative is to build the Scottish economy with inward investment, making it an attractive destination for multi nationals and to wean Scotland off English dependence. Scotland has quite a lot going for it in terms of resources and inventiveness, it's not an impossible ask, but the blue blooded capitalism required is not the SNP's idea of fun.

The SNP make no attempt to make Scotland financially self-sufficient and able to function as an independent state. The financial black hole has always been bad, but fuelled by Covid the most recent data shows England bailing out Scotland to the tune of roughly £8,000 per Scot per annum.

So why doesn't Boris call the SNP's bluff?

There's a very good reason. Labour have no serious chance of forming a majority government in Westminster without Scottish seats. For the critical demographic who win or lose general elections, the 10% floating voters in the 10% most marginal seats - just 1% of the electorate - the Harlow electrician or the Worcester barmaid - the idea of Labour having to get into bed with the SNP to form a government is particularly toxic. It's the bogeyman that keeps on giving to the Conservatives.

The SNP don't really want another referendum - they know what happened to the Quebec separatists after they lost a second time, and Boris is entirely content for Sturgeon to pout and vent her spleen whilst denying her one.

- They are both very happy with the status quo, but will never admit it.

That's a very long way of saying, "I don't know what I'm talking about."
 

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