Signing off indefinitely.

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Shame you feel this way

I believe we are all on a brewing journey whether you started last week or 40 years ago. It can be complicated or as simple as you like..
 
Lol, the only way I'll be leaving is via a ban / death / imprisonment etc, or if someone scientifically proves that flaked barley causes a haze when my experiences say the opposite.
Ooooooh. A challenge. [emoji3]

"Inspiration is the impact of a fact on a well-prepared mind" Louis Pasteur
 
Sorry to see you go Dutto and I hope you reconsider, as others have said there is plenty of room here for everyone and his opinion. I do however feel I have to give some defence of the brewers who take a "scientific" approach (of whom I suspect I'm one). Believe it or not, some of those "gobsh*tes" (of which I'm almost certainly one) and "know alls" are genuinely trying to help by giving another perspective, although perhaps it may not be put across in the friendliest way. Because the problem is that personal experience is by definition personal, whereas the scientific principles should be universal.

For example, "my ol' da brewed for 80 years, never sanitised a thing and never had a single infection in 900 batches and that's good enough for me". That may well be true, but it doesn't make it good advice. Likewise "I've never bothered with X and I've always got away with it". If getting away with it is all you want, then fine. But the next person may not get away with it and some brewers may actually like to know the science behind X and why some deem it important. I'm very much of the opinion that it's better to understand why to do something rather than just knowing what to do and I'm very grateful to the brewers who explained the why to me. I really believe it has made me a better brewer.

Obviously that approach isn't for everyone though, and it's up to the reader to determine what he wants. So someone replying to a thread with "actually the science says this..." shouldn't be taken as a personal attack, because they are probably trying to help, just as we all are.
 
Lol, the only way I'll be leaving is via a ban / death / imprisonment etc, or if someone scientifically proves that flaked barley causes a haze when my experiences say the opposite.

That's an easy one: as long as you limit the flaked barley 100 grams per gallon it should be fine. Or under 10%. Unless you go for a witbier or another intentionally hazy brew.

At least, that's what I've heard, read and learnt.
 
You're welcome - you show me your sums and equations and I'll show you my crystal clear, flaked barley beer. Um, hold on I already have.
I'm good with that. Personal experience and evidence is great and helpful. My objection is when that experience becomes stated fact that flaked barley will not cause haze for others. I'll then defer to science.

"Inspiration is the impact of a fact on a well-prepared mind" Louis Pasteur
 
Hi there,

Since joining the Forum nearly two years ago (and starting to keep records) I have managed to produce (and drink!) 42 x 23 litre batches of beer & lager split more or less 50:50 between AG and Kits.

I've been brewing since about 1968 and (as far as I know) I have not recommended ANYTHING on the Forum that I have not at some time successfully done myself.

However, over the last couple of months I have got the impression that "experience" counts for less than nothing whereas "science" counts for everything.

I therefore hand over the baton to the scientists on the Forum ... :thumb:

... one of whom wrote this on another Forum just over a year ago ...

"Apologies if this is a boring, self-indulgent post,
but I thought I’d catalogue the brewing development and some of the
thought process behind my beers and their names.
I started brewing back in May 2014,
after a fair bit of research and procrastination,
and have now completed 40 brew days, here’s what I’ve been up to."

The person then starts off the list with ".... I thought I’d have a go myself. How hard can it be?" and now, after less than three years and a few experiments, the person can now tell everyone on this Forum how brewing is a "scientific process"!

It isn't! It's an obsession that can stay with you all of your life.

Many, many thanks to the Forum Members who have been such a help over these last two years.

Best regards,

Dutto :thumb: :thumb:

Reference:

https://macchomebrew.club/thought-y-brews/
Actually it was a post from the club website I help to run along with a couple of other members. A club where we share information and help and inspire each other to brew better. A club that started 4 years ago in an area with a large Pharmaceutical industry, of which about 40-50% of our current group are employed in. With two current and one retired Astra Zeneca scientists. So it's fair to say the club as a whole is very science focused, even when they are not talking about beer. The club was inspired and originally hosted by our local brewery, Redwillow. Their owner and headbrewer, an ex biochemist who turned his homebrew hobby into a successful brewery, has been and is great help to the club and source of knowledge.

How does this matter....

In the last 4 years, three different breweries have been started by attendees of the club. Macclesfield Brew Co, Torrside Brewing and our current hosts and Indymanbeercon Thirsty Games new brewery competition winners, Five Clouds Brewery. Added to that is a National Homebrew Competition winner who is now a brewer at Redwillow.

https://macchomebrew.club/our-supporters/

....read into that what you will about the relevance of science in homebrewing.

DISCLAIMER: I take no personal credit for this. Or claim to be a scientist.



"Inspiration is the impact of a fact on a well-prepared mind" Louis Pasteur
 
I've not noticed any science gobsh*tes on the forum.

Oh hang on, they say 'if you can't spot the gobsh*te in the room, then the gobsh*te is you'.

Hope I'm not the reason for you leaving. :-?

Sorry to see you go, I've appreciated all the advice and answers you've given to my newbie questions since I've been on this forum.

M
 
Dutto you have the option to block the person who is annoying you - My Account, Control panel, Edit ignore list. :wink:

.
 
Sorry to see you go Dutto and I hope you reconsider, as others have said there is plenty of room here for everyone and his opinion. I do however feel I have to give some defence of the brewers who take a "scientific" approach (of whom I suspect I'm one). Believe it or not, some of those "gobsh*tes" (of which I'm almost certainly one) and "know alls" are genuinely trying to help by giving another perspective

I think it's the way it's said rather than what is being said. I'm sure that you are one of the more scientific brewers on here but I will always read your posts as they are written in an informative, 'non-preaching' way which I find very useful (although you do lose me with some of the science bits :lol:).

This forum is like a lot of others in that people from diverse backgrounds are brought together by their common interests. It is supposed to be fun and becomes less so when some posters want to lecture to others. Whilst the information they post can be useful, the way that information is handed over can be less so.

Let's all just get along and help each other brew better beer! :drink:
 
Whilst the information they post can be useful, the way that information is handed over can be less so.

Spot on and it will be a shame if the manner in which a certain member has posted drives another away.

.
 
I'll be honest, I could understand walking away if a certain member was constantly ambush posting you, attacking your opinions and views rather than actually offering useful information. Otherwise it's just different opinions, and that's a good thing. :thumb: Getting angry because somebody has a different opinion to yours, well that's self defeating.

As to science vs art, both have a place and value. It's like a light bulb, you don't need to know how it works for it to work, but somebody does else there won't be any light bulbs any more and then we'll all be sat in the dark. Sometimes experience has to become informed with research to develop and improve the art. Without this, we'd all be throwing bread into boiled water, then seeing what happened....

Brewing at it's heart is biochemistry, however how you approach this can be an art. Like music is mathematics, but without heart and soul it's just somebody making patterns of sound.
 
It’s small beer (if you’ll forgive the expression) given where this thread started, but there are some excellent sentiments being expressed in some very nicely written posts.
 
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