So, what’s the point of lager?

[Cheshire Cat]

I'm making a Japanese Rice Pilsner and after 4 day fermentation seems to be complete but I'll check the SG to be sure. I have recently acquired a fridge do I
Transfer the brew to a 2FV and then lager
Leave in the primary and lager
At what temperature
For how long

Thanks

 

[fury_tea]

I'm making a Japanese Rice Pilsner and after 4 day fermentation seems to be complete but I'll check the SG to be sure. I have recently acquired a fridge do I
Transfer the brew to a 2FV and then lager
Leave in the primary and lager
At what temperature
For how long

Thanks

It's up to you, I just leave it in the primary, but I've only got one clear FV.

Some people like to get it off the trub before lagering, but I've never seen the point as it makes no difference to me.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

How long are you lagering for? I’m doing 4 weeks this time then bottling so it’ll have been in the fridge for 7 and a half weeks.

Depends how long I can hold out! I’m trying for a couple of months so similar to you.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

It's a variation on a standard diacetyl force test - see here Diacetyl Force Test

I gave this a try and don’t think it really helped - unless the diacetyl would be so awful the fact that I’m not bowled over by it is itself a good sign!

I’m struggling to even recognise the smell but it is vaguely familiar - probably a collection of smells from a hundred previous brews

There’s no butter taste and the mouthfeel is not obviously slippery (maybe just a touch?) - it is soft though. The taste is a bit dirty but possibly only in the way a cheap lager tastes dirty when it’s flat and warm. Mine’s not lagered or conditioned yet so I maybe have an excuse!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

As I’m not convinced one way or the other, should I warm it for a couple of days or would that not be a good idea now I’ve started lagering?

Having no experience brewing lagers I don’t yet know all the ways I can enhance or ruin the brew.

 

[Garrison_Brew]

As I’m not convinced one way or the other, should I warm it for a couple of days or would that not be a good idea now I’ve started lagering?

Having no experience brewing lagers I don’t yet know all the ways I can enhance or ruin the brew.

I know I'm 11 days late, but for future reference, If you can't taste diacetyl or smell it, you should be fine. Its a negative thing in Lager fermentation, but as previously read your fermentation area isn't temp controlled. It's probably been warm enough in there to ferment it out and eat up any diacetyl that was present.

My process is ferment within Lager yeast temp(6-11c) and then increase it after day 7 by 3c each day upto 16c. I then crash it for up to 1 week and Keg. In Keg I'll force carbonate and Lager for a minimum of 2 weeks, Longer if its going into contest. I have a Helles on tap that tasted great when I tapped it after 2 weeks and it was clear as glass. I do tend to swap away from that tap, but you can tell it tastes better after 2+ weeks.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I know I'm 11 days late, but for future reference, If you can't taste diacetyl or smell it, you should be fine. Its a negative thing in Lager fermentation, but as previously read your fermentation area isn't temp controlled. It's probably been warm enough in there to ferment it out and eat up any diacetyl that was present.

My process is ferment within Lager yeast temp(6-11c) and then increase it after day 7 by 3c each day upto 16c. I then crash it for up to 1 week and Keg. In Keg I'll force carbonate and Lager for a minimum of 2 weeks, Longer if its going into contest. I have a Helles on tap that tasted great when I tapped it after 2 weeks and it was clear as glass. I do tend to swap away from that tap, but you can tell it tastes better after 2+ weeks.

It’s two weeks in and I thought I’d give it a try. It’s clear but not crystal clear. It has a fairly delicate malt and hop aroma. Taste is definitely not clean and I’m now fairly convinced there IS a diacetyl flavour. Will it do any damage to a lager if, after lagering for two weeks, I bring the temperature back up for a few days?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I left the lager in the fridge and didn’t warm it up. It’s been in the fridge at about 3C for nearly 4 weeks and is now fairly clear (see pic). It does have a diacetyl taste to it but not strong and not as pronounced as I remember it about a week and a half ago - that gives me a little hope that I’ve not blown it.

Next update on this thread in a couple of weeks.

 

[fury_tea]

I left the lager in the fridge and didn’t warm it up. It’s been in the fridge at about 3C for nearly 4 weeks and is now fairly clear (see pic). It does have a diacetyl taste to it but not strong and not as pronounced as I remember it about a week and a half ago - that gives me a little hope that I’ve not blown it.

Next update on this thread in a couple of weeks.

View attachment 25560

Looks good, lovely colour and looks nice and clear. Time does help with these things, it will probably fade a bit over time so be as patient as you can.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Looks good, lovely colour and looks nice and clear. Time does help with these things, it will probably fade a bit over time so be as patient as you can.

Thanks for the words of comfort! My plan is to give it a couple of months (one down so far), then bottle it and give it several weeks conditioning. My first lager so learning a new set of skills here.

 

[fury_tea]

Good luck mate

 

[MickDundee]

I left the lager in the fridge and didn’t warm it up. It’s been in the fridge at about 3C for nearly 4 weeks and is now fairly clear (see pic). It does have a diacetyl taste to it but not strong and not as pronounced as I remember it about a week and a half ago - that gives me a little hope that I’ve not blown it.

Next update on this thread in a couple of weeks.

View attachment 25560

I’m going to try a sneaky bottle of mine tonight, it’s been on the go the same length of time as yours but I lagered in primary then carbonated in the bottle whereas IIRC you lagered after bottling.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’m going to try a sneaky bottle of mine tonight, it’s been on the go the same length of time as yours but I lagered in primary then carbonated in the bottle whereas IIRC you lagered after bottling.

I haven’t bottled yet. From the fermentation vessel (bucket!) I transferred the beer into a keg, injected CO2 to displace any oxygen and put it in the fridge. I plan to bottle after two months and after a couple of weeks in the warm to carbonate, the bottles will go back in the fridge for a few weeks and then get drunk or thrown away depending on how good/bad they are.

 

[MickDundee]

I’m going to try a sneaky bottle of mine tonight, it’s been on the go the same length of time as yours but I lagered in primary then carbonated in the bottle whereas IIRC you lagered after bottling.

Here it is. Early signs good but still tastes a bit young. Will go back to it in another few weeks and see how it develops.

 

[Garrison_Brew]

Thanks for the words of comfort! My plan is to give it a couple of months (one down so far), then bottle it and give it several weeks conditioning. My first lager so learning a new set of skills here.

Honestly, I'd get it bottled now, Condition/carbonate and then lager. No harm in doing it the way you plan, but you might find the additional temp rise and bottle fermentation whilst the yeast is active will do you a world of wonders getting rid of some of the diacetyl.

 

[chthon]

Increasing the temperature to get rid of diacetyl is just a method to clean up your beer faster, a method which can easily be used by homebrewers, because of their small volumes.

Lager/bottom fermenting beer would be kept for three to six months, at lager temperature, and the yeast will then also clean up the diacetyl, but much slower.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Two weeks since I last tasted my first attempt at brewing a lager, and six weeks lagering in total. Since my last sample where I could taste diacetyl I left the lager in the keg in my fridge and kept my fingers crossed...

I’m very relieved to say the diacetyl taste has now all but gone. The lager also has a slight sweetness that I hadn’t noticed before - I’m guessing brought out as the yeast is clearing up?

It’s now starting to turn into something I will enjoy drinking and I’m almost prepared to accept I’ve done a reasonable job with help from a few friends - thank you!

Now to see how much better it might get!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What does diacetyl taste like?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

What does diacetyl taste like?

It’s quite hard to describe but I’ve heard it described as buttery. It also feels a bit greasy/slippery on the roof of your mouth.

 

[MickDundee]

What does diacetyl taste like?

Butter - they use diacetyl to add artificial butter flavouring to popcorn.