Some MPs 'ready to vote against triggering Brexit'

[Chippy_Tea]

Liberal Democrat, some Labour and SDLP MPs have told the BBC they are prepared to vote against triggering Article 50.
Lib Dem leader Tim Farron said his party would oppose it, unless they were promised a second referendum on the UK's Brexit deal with EU leaders.
Several Labour MPs are also willing to vote against it, despite the Labour Party pledging not to do so.
The government says Lib Dem and Labour MPs are "trying to thwart and reverse the referendum result".
With the support of Conservative MPs and the support or abstention of most Labour MPs, the bill is well placed to pass through the Commons.
But the opposition of some MPs is likely to embolden critics in the House of Lords.

'Red line'

The Liberal Democrats have long called for a referendum on the outcome of the government's negotiations with EU, but only now have they said they will definitely vote against Article 50 if their demand is not met.
Mr Farron, whose party has eight MPs in the Commons, told BBC Radio 4's Today: "Article 50 would proceed but only if there is a referendum on the terms of the deal and if the British people are not respected then, yes, that is a red line and we would vote against the government."

For Labour, shadow minister Catherine West, former leadership contender Owen Smith and south London MP Helen Hayes all made clear they were prepared to vote against Article 50 - which begins formal exit negotiations with the EU - if amendments were not accepted.
Former Labour minister David Lammy and shadow transport minister Daniel Zeichner have said they would oppose Article 50. Opposition whip Thangam Debbonaire said she would also vote against it, if a vote were held imminently.
The SNP's 54 MPs may join them. First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said they will not vote for anything that undermines the will of the Scottish people, and has previously said they will vote against a bill to write EU provisions into British law to prepare for Brexit.

'Genuine distress'

Dulwich Labour MP Hayes said she was prepared to defy Labour whips to oppose the measure unless the government promised a second referendum.
She said: "I had somebody in my surgery last week who was in tears because of Brexit and I see genuine distress amongst my constituents about what this path means.
"I would not be representing them if I voted to trigger Article 50 on the basis of no information from the government about the path that they would then take us on."
In posts on Twitter and Facebook earlier this week, shadow Foreign Office minister Catherine West wrote: "As I have said before, I stand with the people of Hornsey & Wood Green, and I will vote against Brexit in Parliament."

'Unconditional' support

Owen Smith confirmed to Today that if his bid for a second referendum failed, he was likely to oppose the bill.
The SDLP's three MPs will also oppose the measure.
Ministers said MPs voting against Article 50 would effectively be trying to re-run the referendum in the hope of a "different answer".
"Parliament voted by a margin of six to one to put the decision on whether to remain in or leave the EU in the hands of the British people," said Brexit minister David Jones.
"Only the Conservatives can be trusted to respect the outcome of the referendum and make a success of Brexit."
Last week the High Court ruled Parliament must be consulted about leaving the European Union.
Unless the Supreme Court overturns the judgement in December, a bill to invoke Article 50 is expected in the new year.
Labour made clear its official position would be not to frustrate the process of leaving the EU after a newspaper report said the party leader Jeremy Corbyn intended to force a general election unless ministers caved in to demands.
After the story broke Labour sources said that while it would seek to amend the bill, it would provide "unconditional" support.
Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer said Labour would not frustrate the process and would not vote down Article 50.
However, Labour and Liberal Democrat peers will try to amend the bill in the House of Lords. So too will one Conservative peer - Baroness Wheatcroft.
BBC News.

 

[Godsdog]

The thing that angers me is we were all given one vote so why should our MPs around 630 of them have two votes and can overturn the way referendum result,any MP who votes against it should be deselected and sacked by their local party selection committee

 

[MyQul]

The thing that angers me is we were all given one vote so why should our MPs around 630 of them have two votes and can overturn the way referendum result,any MP who votes against it should be deselected and sacked by their local party selection committee

I'm deffo not an expert on this but I dont think they can overturn the result just decide on what sort of brexit we get

 

[zippy40]

I can see the point of view of SDLP since Northern Ireland voted to stay as a country. However I do think that it is political suicide for both lib dems and Labour.

Either way now, 17M people will feel betrayed by them if they do delay or prevent it from happening.

Even SDLP has been shown to be undemocratic (though democracy is a bit hit or miss in NI lol). I don't think it will affect their vote too much tho.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Nigel said we would end up with a half arsed brexit (he didn't actually say that) and i fear he is going to be right.

.

 

[Russ146]

The irony is lost on most people that Liberal DEMOCRATS appose a DEMOCRATIC decision made by the people living in a DEMOCRACY. you couldnt make it up.

Lib Dems, both of them have been committing political suicide for years.

Their answer to every pie in the sky plan they propose involves raising taxes. Any idiot can do that.

These people will NEVER be in power or have any real influence in anything.

Go and get proper jobs you clowns.

 

[Pfeffer]

Again, it's a democracy and a referendum is not binding. It's just the "voice" of the people. The people that were elected (with the same voters) decide what's best for the country. As it's nearly a 50/50 (yes I realize 1 or 2% are quite a lot of voters in numbers, but it's about stats) there's still a vast majority against brexit.

Imho it would be best to use that voice to put some pressure on the EU, to reform it for the good of all wealthy countries and cut down the EU law making machine to enable some self governance.

The EU is still a good idea in my mind, but it's just used incorrectly. It's more like a charity factory at the moment. It should be an alliance to increase multinational trade to benefit all members and make it easier for all inhabitants. At the moment it's the wealthy paying for the poor, which might be good on the long term.. but I'm not seeing something in return at the short term. It brought quite a lot of wealth to us although most pro-brexit voters might not realize.

Even if brexit can be realized, I doubt that much will change as you'll still have the same kind of politicians (it's how you guys voted for the past few decades). So you lose the benefits but keep the flaws. That won't do the country much good. But that's just the view from my side, an outsider.

 

[Godsdog]

Again, it's a democracy and a referendum is not binding. It's just the "voice" of the people. The people that were elected (with the same voters) decide what's best for the country. As it's nearly a 50/50 (yes I realize 1 or 2% are quite a lot of voters in numbers, but it's about stats) there's still a vast majority against brexit.

Imho it would be best to use that voice to put some pressure on the EU, to reform it for the good of all wealthy countries and cut down the EU law making machine to enable some self governance.

The EU is still a good idea in my mind, but it's just used incorrectly. It's more like a charity factory at the moment. It should be an alliance to increase multinational trade to benefit all members and make it easier for all inhabitants. At the moment it's the wealthy paying for the poor, which might be good on the long term.. but I'm not seeing something in return at the short term. It brought quite a lot of wealth to us although most pro-brexit voters might not realize.

Even if brexit can be realized, I doubt that much will change as you'll still have the same kind of politicians (it's how you guys voted for the past few decades). So you lose the benefits but keep the flaws. That won't do the country much good. But that's just the view from my side, an outsider.

Reform it? We have more chance of the second coming,its beyond reform because its just a gravy train ticket for the greedy EU MPs to stick their snout in the money trough, they don't care about you me or anyone else that is Joe public awarding themselves huge pensions for doing jack****. I hope it collapses like the house if cards it is

 

[dad_of_jon]

Again, it's a democracy and a referendum is not binding. It's just the "voice" of the people. The people that were elected (with the same voters) decide what's best for the country. As it's nearly a 50/50 (yes I realize 1 or 2% are quite a lot of voters in numbers, but it's about stats) there's still a vast majority against brexit.

Imho it would be best to use that voice to put some pressure on the EU, to reform it for the good of all wealthy countries and cut down the EU law making machine to enable some self governance.

The EU is still a good idea in my mind, but it's just used incorrectly. It's more like a charity factory at the moment. It should be an alliance to increase multinational trade to benefit all members and make it easier for all inhabitants. At the moment it's the wealthy paying for the poor, which might be good on the long term.. but I'm not seeing something in return at the short term. It brought quite a lot of wealth to us although most pro-brexit voters might not realize.

Even if brexit can be realized, I doubt that much will change as you'll still have the same kind of politicians (it's how you guys voted for the past few decades). So you lose the benefits but keep the flaws. That won't do the country much good. But that's just the view from my side, an outsider.

Goede avant Pfeffer,

you're right about the EU - northern vs southern block. Unfortunately some EU politicos let the power go to their head and invited everyone in.

The bigger the group the less likely you are able to get a progressive situation. in the UK the phrase is 'management by committee'

or

a camel is a horse designed by a committee!

the EU is a 27/28 member committee! :-?

 

[Pfeffer]

Reform it? We have more chance of the second coming,its beyond reform because its just a gravy train ticket for the greedy EU MPs to stick their snout in the money trough, they don't care about you me or anyone else that is Joe public awarding themselves huge pensions for doing jack****. I hope it collapses like the house if cards it is

Agreed, but I don't hope for a collapse. That would cause our (Yes, I'm one of the lucky ones) euros to crash and then we'll be in a world of pain for a long time.

Reforming is hard, but it's much needed and it will certainly need some pressure. So I hope the brexit helps my situation. Honestly, what you guys end up with doesn’t concern me but it hopefully opens some eyes in the EU. Either way, I hope you guys get it sorted soon in everyone's benefit.

 

[Clint]

The biggest problem in all of this are the lying self centred self interested gravy train two faced worse than scum politicians and beaurecrats. ..if they were really passionate and cared about the people and countries they so desperately want to be elected to represent they'd do it for 30k a year...and like it!

Cheers

Clint

 

[Russ146]

Exactly.

Seen the latest load of EU parasites that dont actually have a job will be paid £16,000 a month salary just so they can stay on the payroll until they get their pensions.

Oh my bleeding heart.

bear that in mind next time your on the treadmill driving to work paying 80% tax when you fill your car up to pay tax on the money you earn and the council tax you pay with whats left

Nothing but Cockroaches

 

[Hoppyland]

Might the most obvious load of EU parasites be our UKIP MEPs? The ones who turned up, took the shedload of expenses, but ..............

 

[Personal91]

The biggest problem in all of this are the lying self centred self interested gravy train two faced worse than scum politicians and beaurecrats. ..if they were really passionate and cared about the people and countries they so desperately want to be elected to represent they'd do it for 30k a year...and like it!

Cheers

Clint

They couldn't do that - they would then be affected by tax hikes and other things that they hurl down at us from they're high tower - we are just the worker ants remember that

 

[HebridesRob]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html

At a local level in time, people think things are fine — then things rapidly spiral out of control until they become unstoppable, and we wreak massive destruction on ourselves. For the people living in the midst of this, it is hard to see happening and hard to understand. To historians later, it all makes sense and we see clearly how one thing led to another. During the Centenary of the Battle of the Somme I was struck that it was a direct outcome of the assassination of an Austrian Arch Duke in Bosnia. I very much doubt anyone at the time thought the killing of a minor European royal would lead to the death of 17 million people.

My point is that this is a cycle. It happens again and again, but as most people only have a 50-100 year historical perspective they don’t see that it’s happening again. As the events that led to the First World War unfolded, there were a few brilliant minds who started to warn that something big was wrong, that the web of treaties across Europe could lead to a war, but they were dismissed as hysterical, mad, or fools, as is always the way, and as people who worry about Putin, Brexit and Trump are dismissed now.

^On a number of levels, we are in a very dangerous time. Perhaps the people protesting against Trump and hoping to prevent Brexit can see where we are headed.

 

[HebridesRob]

I'm deffo not an expert on this but I dont think they can overturn the result just decide on what sort of brexit we get

The law that parliament enacted when they started the referendum was that the referendum was advisory rather than binding. They can vote against if they so wish (they won't) because of that.

The House of Lords will not stop Brexit because there is a convention that they do not interfere when there has been a referendum.

I think an awful lot of people are going to die as a result of Brexit so, if I was an MP I'd do my best to stop it, just so I could avoid the guilt.

 

[Russ146]

I think an awful lot of people are going to die as a result of Brexit.

Were heading for a mass extinction phenomenon regardless of political claptrap either by war, scientists or natural causes anyway.

Earthquakes in Italy caused by the insanity known as the "particle collider"

They didnt know if the first experiment was going to blow Switzerland off the face of the earth so stuck their fingers in their ears and pressed the button anyway.

Just like the yanks did in the 50's when they let off the first Atom bomb. They thought it might cause a chain reaction and ignite every atom in the known universe. So pressed it anyway.

Only a matter of time before a "Scientist" says "oops"

The Yanks were actually going to set off a Nuke on the moon to show the Russians how powerful they were.

That would have been mass extinction.

 

[Russ146]

Might the most obvious load of EU parasites be our UKIP MEPs? The ones who turned up, took the shedload of expenses, but ..............

AND got us the vote to leave and leave we will.

Norway and Switzerland and doing very well without the EU thank you very much

 

[MyQul]

Were heading for a mass extinction phenomenon regardless of political claptrap either by war, scientists or natural causes anyway.

Earthquakes in Italy caused by the insanity known as the "particle collider"

They didnt know if the first experiment was going to blow Switzerland off the face of the earth so stuck their fingers in their ears and pressed the button anyway.

Just like the yanks did in the 50's when they let off the first Atom bomb. They thought it might cause a chain reaction and ignite every atom in the known universe. So pressed it anyway.

Only a matter of time before a "Scientist" says "oops"

I'm sure there were earthquakes in Italy before anyone invented the particle collider.

I'm hoping for the zombie apocalypse myself. Then I can be like Rick in walking dead - YEHAAAH!!!

 

[geetee]

I'm deffo not an expert on this but I dont think they can overturn the result just decide on what sort of brexit we get

Nope, the court case was exactly about that. No article 50 can be invoked i.e Brexit cannot start unless MPs vote for it.

Remember that the vote was advisory which means that Mps have to confirm it in parliament. Imagine that there were dire consequences that might come from brexit then the job of the MPs it to oversee that and prevent it.

WE live in a parliamentary democracy where the will of the people is expressed BUT it is actually enforced by democratically elected MPs who can vote with the people or with their conscience for the greater good of the country. Any thing other than this i simply mob rule, there has to be checks and balances on what the people demand and wht is reasonable .