Spray malt with all grain?

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MuckyNeighbour

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Hi,
I’m about to embark on my 3rd brew starting with all grain. I’ll be making my own mash from black malt and/or chocolate malt and roasted barley. On my previous brew I added spray malt after the sparging but I’m wondering whether that’s necessary this time. This brew will be a Black Forest stout and I’ll be adding a whole bunch of berries at the fermentation stage. Will the sugars in the berries be enough to negate the need for spray malt?
 

Brewnaldo

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Hi,
I’m about to embark on my 3rd brew starting with all grain. I’ll be making my own mash from black malt and/or chocolate malt and roasted barley. On my previous brew I added spray malt after the sparging but I’m wondering whether that’s necessary this time. This brew will be a Black Forest stout and I’ll be adding a whole bunch of berries at the fermentation stage. Will the sugars in the berries be enough to negate the need for spray malt?
Are you talking no base malts at all? If so, I'd say you're going to need rather a lot of spray malt!
 

MuckyNeighbour

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Good point. My last brews were 5L raspberry stout using: 1kg pale malt; 700g raspberry pulp; 80g chocolate malt; 108g roasted barley plus the hops & yeast. That turned out well but I didn’t record my method. Then a 5L cherry stout using:
100g black malt & 100g chocolate malt for the mash. My notes say I added 1kg pale spray malt after sparging. This one literally erupted from the bottles when I opened them. That’s one of the reasons I thought the spray was maybe unnecessary.
 

Brewnaldo

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Good point. My last brews were 5L raspberry stout using: 1kg pale malt; 700g raspberry pulp; 80g chocolate malt; 108g roasted barley plus the hops & yeast. That turned out well but I didn’t record my method. Then a 5L cherry stout using:
100g black malt & 100g chocolate malt for the mash. My notes say I added 1kg pale spray malt after sparging. This one literally erupted from the bottles when I opened them. That’s one of the reasons I thought the spray was maybe unnecessary.
You're going to get nothing out of those roasted malts mash wise. Your last brew sounds like a normal all grain affair but this one you have planned seems to be in the realms of extract brewing, which isnt something I know much tbh
 

MuckyNeighbour

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so if I add some pale malt in with the mash, will I need to add spray malt for the fermentation stage?
I should say that this one will be much the same, ingredients wise, only with different fruit.
 

MuckyNeighbour

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Ok. Sorry to press but I need to get this right.
If I use Maris Otter pale malt, chocolate malt and roasted barley in the mash with fruit pulp added during the fermentation stage do I still need spray malt and, if so, should the amount be adjusted to account for the fruit sugars?
If so, what sort of ratio am I looking at?
 

Oneflewover

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What is your recipe? From the limited information you have given I don't think anyone can answer your questions I'm afraid. To be perfectly honest I am quite perplexed by your posts and respectfully wonder if it would be helpful to go back to basics? All the best.
 

MuckyNeighbour

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What is your recipe? From the limited information you have given I don't think anyone can answer your questions I'm afraid. To be perfectly honest I am quite perplexed by your posts and respectfully wonder if it would be helpful to go back to basics? All the best.
1kg pale malt (Maris Otter)
80g chocolate malt
108g roasted barley

Brambling cross hops at start of boil
700g fruit pulp added after boil
Amarillo hops after boil
5g Mangrove Jack US West Coast yeast

And here’s my original question: do I also now add spray malt at the fermentation stage?

can’t see why this question is so perplexing. It’s been 18 months since my last brew and I’m a bit rusty plus my notes are clearly not up to scratch.
 

Sandimas

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1kg pale malt (Maris Otter)
80g chocolate malt
108g roasted barley

Brambling cross hops at start of boil
700g fruit pulp added after boil
Amarillo hops after boil
5g Mangrove Jack US West Coast yeast

And here’s my original question: do I also now add spray malt at the fermentation stage?

can’t see why this question is so perplexing. It’s been 18 months since my last brew and I’m a bit rusty plus my notes are clearly not up to scratch.
Because we're trying to work out what you are trying to achieve. Why are you adding extra spraymalt, to up the OG/ABV?

Yes you can add spraymalt after the sparge and for the full duration of the boil, or add it at the very end of the boil, it doesn't need boiling. But as other have said, it's worth plugging the figures into a recipe calculator to work out what OG you're trying to achieve: you gave part of your recipe above but you didn't say the volume, which makes it hard to work out anything.

BTW I add spraymalt to my AG brews all the time, I can only do a small BIAB mash so I size my recipes to take 1kg of added spraymalt which means I can do bigger brews.
 

An Ankoù

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1kg pale malt (Maris Otter)
80g chocolate malt
108g roasted barley

Brambling cross hops at start of boil
700g fruit pulp added after boil
Amarillo hops after boil
5g Mangrove Jack US West Coast yeast

And here’s my original question: do I also now add spray malt at the fermentation stage?

can’t see why this question is so perplexing. It’s been 18 months since my last brew and I’m a bit rusty plus my notes are clearly not up to scratch.
You're doing a 5 litre batch, right? Your 1 Kg of MO is going to give you an OG of around 1050. The fruit pulp will push that up a bit, but there's not as much sugar in the fruit pulp as you might think. Your yeast will take the gravity down fairly low and I reckon you'll end up with a beer around 5½ to 6% abv. If you want it stronger than that, then add the spraymalt accordingly. if not, you don't need it.
 

HSD

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Not dissimilar to some of the small batch brews I’ve done, as said keying into one of the calculators will give you a framework, depending on grain mix and intended strength I’ll add dme though not always. Should make a nice drop, what’s the fruit out of interest?
 

MuckyNeighbour

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Not dissimilar to some of the small batch brews I’ve done, as said keying into one of the calculators will give you a framework, depending on grain mix and intended strength I’ll add dme though not always. Should make a nice drop, what’s the fruit out of interest?
I’m going for a Black Forest brew so black cherries and winter berries
 
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MuckyNeighbour

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You're doing a 5 litre batch, right? Your 1 Kg of MO is going to give you an OG of around 1050. The fruit pulp will push that up a bit, but there's not as much sugar in the fruit pulp as you might think. Your yeast will take the gravity down fairly low and I reckon you'll end up with a beer around 5½ to 6% abv. If you want it stronger than that, then add the spraymalt accordingly. if not, you don't need it.
Fab. Thanks :-)
 

MuckyNeighbour

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Because we're trying to work out what you are trying to achieve. Why are you adding extra spraymalt, to up the OG/ABV?

Yes you can add spraymalt after the sparge and for the full duration of the boil, or add it at the very end of the boil, it doesn't need boiling. But as other have said, it's worth plugging the figures into a recipe calculator to work out what OG you're trying to achieve: you gave part of your recipe above but you didn't say the volume, which makes it hard to work out anything.

BTW I add spraymalt to my AG brews all the time, I can only do a small BIAB mash so I size my recipes to take 1kg of added spraymalt which means I can do bigger brews.
I realise now my original post was a bit vague. I was concerned that, without the spray I might not have enough fermentable sugar but also that, with it, I’d end up with a violent brew like my last try. I’m more concerned with a great tasting beer than with abv albeit I’d like a min 5%. I’ll probably check the OG and, if it’s a bit low, I’ll add some spray
 

HSD

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I’m going for a Black Forest brew so black cherries and winter berries
Should be great, this is one I did which is similar, topped out shy 6%:
500g frozen berries fruit (blackberry, raspberry, cherry and strawberry), cooked down as a syrup 100g sugar sieved added to FV
750g MO malt
100g Caramalt
60g Aromatic malt
50g wheat malt
60 minute boil
8g EKG hops half at start and halfway
5g Cascade at 55mins
5g SO-5 yeast
Went like a rocket, matured very nice fruity red ale
 

MuckyNeighbour

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Should be great, this is one I did which is similar, topped out shy 6%:
500g frozen berries fruit (blackberry, raspberry, cherry and strawberry), cooked down as a syrup 100g sugar sieved added to FV
750g MO malt
100g Caramalt
60g Aromatic malt
50g wheat malt
60 minute boil
8g EKG hops half at start and halfway
5g Cascade at 55mins
5g SO-5 yeast
Went like a rocket, matured very nice fruity red ale
that does sound good. I ordered way too much darker malts so will have to stick to similar recipes for now but will be experimenting with other styles at some point. I like the sound of caramalt so will likely get some in soon
 

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