Still no carbonation

[gillonstewart]

Hi guys. Today is three weeks bottled for my Cooper's real ale. After zero carbonation after 7 days, I've left it alone, still in the living room for a further two weeks.

Today is three weeks bottled so stuck a bottle in the fridge this morning and have just opened it. Same again, zero carbonation, well maybe the tiniest, tiniest hint of a soupçon of "tss" when the cap came off.

I poured the beer from about three feet above the glass to get some sort of head. It was pretty tasty though at least.

Not sure where to go from here.

 

[Dutto]

Try pouring the bottle into a glass, use a syringe to remove about 10ml then forcibly reinject it into the glass.

If you don’t get a decent head on the brew, then the chances are that you under-carbonated the brew or the caps leak.
:hat:

 

[RichardM]

What did you use to prime the bottles?

 

[stan]

Try pouring the bottle into a glass, use a syringe to remove about 10ml then forcibly reinject it into the glass.

If you don’t get a decent head on the brew, then the chances are that you under-carbonated the brew or the caps leak.
:hat:

one of my tricks that works well

 

[Agentgonzo]

Given you used carb drops, we know they have been primed. So either it didn't ferment (unlikely) or the bottles weren't sealed.

There is still plenty of residual yeast in the beer to bottle condition, but you could do a few things to test the whether it fermented.

Taste it and judge (rubbish method).
Uncap a bottle, Chuck a small (1/8th tsp or less) baking yeast into it and stick a balloon over the top. If it inflates over the next few days, you'll know whether there is residual unfermented sugar.

How much yeast is in the bottom of the bottles compared with when you bottled it? If there is some/more. It indicates it did referment, but the gas escaped .

My betting is that it was the bottle that wasn't sealed. There was someone on here who had problems with peroni bottles that didn't carb up whereas others did.


The beer is still drinkable, and you can recarb it.
Open up a bottle (or many), reprime and recap (fresh cap). Then put a balloon over the top of the whole thing. If the balloon inflates, you cap isn't sealed.

 

[gillonstewart]

The beer was crystal clear when it went into the bottles and still is now. I'd be surprised/annoyed if none of the caps had sealed. Both bottles that I sampled were chosen randomly from the batch.

Try pouring the bottle into a glass, use a syringe to remove about 10ml then forcibly reinject it into the glass.

If you don’t get a decent head on the brew, then the chances are that you under-carbonated the brew or the caps leak.
:hat:

I poured this bottle from a couple of feet above the glass and got no appreciable head, little bit but probably as much as I'd expect on a coffee if poured the same. It disappeared pretty quick.

When I made this batch I was let down by an eBay seller and mucked around a bit after ordering a capper, then had to order another one and wait another week for that one to arrive, so the beer sat in its primary bucket for a good five or six weeks. I wonder if it just attenuated all the yeast?

I'll try dropping a spot of yeast, would wine yeast be better than baker's yeast? (I have both) in with a balloon on top and see if it starts to referment.

It is a tasty beer though!

 

[Agentgonzo]

I have no idea whether wine yeast is different to beer yeast. Bread yeast is the same as ale yeast (saccharomyces ceriviciae (sp?)) And a safe cheap alternative

 

[Tanglefoot]

Difference is wine yeast cannot deal with Maltose, attenuates to a higher level and can produce off flavours in beers so bread yeast is probably a better option ( if you've already tried adding a tsp of sugar without success).

 

[Dutto]

……

I poured this bottle from a couple of feet above the glass and got no appreciable head, little bit but probably as much as I'd expect on a coffee if poured the same. It disappeared pretty quick.

….

The syringe system is completely different! Don’t know why, but it works!
:hat:

 

[gillonstewart]

The syringe system is completely different! Don’t know why, but it works!
:hat:

Cool, I'll give it a bash. I have several syringes but they've all been used for engine related things so I might struggle to find one that's clean.

 

[phildo79]

What sort of capper did you use and what are the lips and collars like on your bottles? Are they all the same? I had issues with certain bottles, back in the day. Bottles with very shallow collars, like Corona, are a nightmare. But ones with a deep collar, like punk IPA, are perfect for a wing capper. I was never satisfied unless I seen the circular dent in the top of the cap.

 

[gillonstewart]

The bottles were all bought off eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25322881...o9UUodvQOO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPYThe capper is this type:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/39404381...o9UUodvQOO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPYI had originally ordered the two handled type but it never turned up.

 

[Agentgonzo]

The syringe system is completely different! Don’t know why, but it works!
:hat:

I'm guessing here, but it's probably the Venturi effect as the beer goes through the narrow nozzle on the syringe at high speed. The pressure will drop, which will immediately draw a lot of CO2 out of solution. As there are no nucleation sites, it'll happen throughout the beer, and thus the bubbles will be tiny (like Guinness), and then form a decent head

 

[AnimatedGIF]

The bottles were all bought off eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25322881...o9UUodvQOO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPYThe capper is this type:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/39404381...o9UUodvQOO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPYI had originally ordered the two handled type but it never turned up.

I had one of these cappers and initially couldn't get it to cap properly. I started a thread that also contained the response from the retailer - I'll see if I can find it in case it is useful.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

Ok, so I didn't start a thread, but the issue is mentioned here Beer bottling
And the solution, which worked well was here Beer bottling

 

[phildo79]

I have never used a bench capper so couldn't advise but those bottles have virtually no collar. They would be so awkward with a twin handled (wing) capper. Not sure if the same issue would crop up with a bench capper though.

 

[Dutto]

I'm guessing here, but it's probably the Venturi effect as the beer goes through the narrow nozzle on the syringe at high speed. The pressure will drop, which will immediately draw a lot of CO2 out of solution. As there are no nucleation sites, it'll happen throughout the beer, and thus the bubbles will be tiny (like Guinness), and then form a decent head

I think that the man who discovered the Venturi Effect was a man called Bernoulli.

I was impressed with the number of formulas etc that had his name on it; until I realised he had lots of brothers who also studied physics!

 

[gillonstewart]

Well the syringe trick worked a treat!

I have never used a bench capper so couldn't advise but those bottles have virtually no collar. They would be so awkward with a twin handled (wing) capper. Not sure if the same issue would crop up with a bench capper though.

Im not au fait with the terminology, is the collar the edge that the cap fits on?

The capper that I've got puts a fair amount of force on the cap (I broke one bottle) so I'd like to think it would seal the cap properly. I think the old adage, buy cheap buy twice applies here

 

[phildo79]

It's the bit below the lip and cap. For some reason, it's really rare to find on green bottles but here is one

 

[phildo79]

No idea what beer was in this before it was filled with homebrew. The clear bottle is Corona and they are almost impossible to cap with a wing capper. A deep collar gives the capper more stability. Without it, wing cappers tend to wriggle around the neck. I've had a good few necks snapped off before I discovered what sort of bottles were easier and safer to cap.