Strange-steve's Homebrew Reviews

So tonight I'm drinking the second beer from @Zephyr259 which is a saison at a rather merry 9% ABV, sounds like my kind of beer...

Aroma
Phenolic yeast character very prominent, peppery spice, some fruitiness, a little tart with hints of bubblegum which is interesting and a bit of alcohol in there too.

Appearance
Poured very clear initially but I got a bit of sediment in there hence the haze, but a very pretty golden colour with fantastic head retention.

Flavour
Spicy phenols initially, a touch of fruitiness which grew as the beer warmed a little, clean subtle malt flavours and very dry as a saison should be. A big kick of alcohol (not unexpected at 9%) but it's smooth, no harshness to it at all. Great carbonation, really lightens the beer on the tongue and adds to the dry finish.

Overall Impression
For some reason I thought you'd told me this was fermented with Wy3711, but as soon as I tasted it I had a feeling I was wrong on that (and actually the hint of bubblegum in the aroma was my first clue). I think it was Brewhaha who had used it, I'm losing track of all these swaps! Anyway I'm going to hazard a guess that this is MJ French saison, it has that distinctive MJ bite that I seem to get every time from their yeasts. Well almost every time, Ajhutch managed to slip one past me (although I'll be hanging up my mash paddle if you tell me I'm wrong!) I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something about the flavour profile from their yeasts that just doesn't sit right with me. It doesn't ruin this beer for me, but it does reduce my enjoyment a little. And that's just my personal taste, I know others love it so it's not really a criticism, more an observation, feel free to ignore it because this is very well brewed, I love the complexity that comes from beers of this strength and I've made a note to brew a really big saison soon. So thanks for sending this mate, and because you were generous in sending two beers I owe you another, I have a lemon and lime Berliner if that takes your fancy, or a spiced quadrupel if not? BTW I'm curious, what was the fermentation temperature for this?

 

Thanks again for the very detailed feedback but I'm sorry to say you have to hang your mash paddle up. It's Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale, the Blaugies strain. Now that you've had both beers I shall reveal all my secrets, well, it's been on my brewday thread since the 20th Feb but here's a copy hidden in a spoiler since it's rather big.

In the end it's not close to Tripel Karmeliet but it never was going to be without a different yeast and I decided I wanted a saison, Also I needs a lot more orange to be like TK to my palate. How did you find the body? It has a huge mouthfeel to me, especially since it finished at 1.002, probably all the wheat and oats. Seems to still be slowly building carbonation as each bottle is getting better fizz and head.

This was a very interesting split wort experiment, got about 20 bottles of each which is probably better than 40 of the saison.

One of the spiced Quads would be great if you're ok with that? Thanks

Spoiler

The split batch based on Tripel Karmeliet I mentioned above was as follows.

2.5 kg golden promise
800g malted wheat
550g malted oats
400g flaked barley
250g rolled oats
200g torrified wheat

Used the yellow balanced profile from bru'n water and did my usual of scaling it up from 50 to 100 Ca. Got to play with a step mash, 10 min /43c (acid), 15 min /50 (protein), 30 min / 65c (beta), 30 min / 70c (alpha), 10 min / 75c (mash out). Gave me a lovely clear golden wort, step mashing seems to do that for me.

Boil is where this one starts to get interesting, sparged to 21L then drew off 1 L, this got simmered for 15 min with 10g styrian goldings (4.8%) and then strained and reduced to a syrup, I also made the mistake of tasting it... The main boil was for an hour with 15g styrian goldings at 60 min, 10g styrian goldings at 30 min, then 20g saaz (3%) at 15 and 5 min. Spicing was 1 star anise at 30 min and the zest of 2 oranges and 10g coriander at 5 min.

Now things get complicated again, the wort was run off between 2 fermenters, 8L for the saison and 7L for the weizen, saison got 325g of Tradecraft raw sugar and the weizen got the hopped syrup. Sugar is traditional in Tripels and storng saisons and the hopped syrup was to make the 2nd beer a bit more bitter and malty as it was going to be along the lines of a weizenbock, but paler (Helles).

This grain bill was from the CSI recipe, hops, spicing and mash steps were from a thread on homebrewtalk. This thread had tried many yeasts and none were quite right, Wyeast 1214 was maybe the closest but my jar of it was too old and it's a massive pain to deal with in small batches since it's so powdery, as such I went for Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse ale as my first saison with this yeast came across almost like a tripel when it was 6 months old and had slightly over carbonated itself.

In the end I had 8L at 1.070, 23 IBU for the saison and 7.5L at 1.062, 30 IBU (bit of a guess). Efficiency was only about 66% on this one, think the crush was bad but my drill was running out of batteries so I only just got it milled, normally I mill the night before brewday but had been busy so didn't this time, should have run the grain though a second time manually but hey ho, a bit more sugar to the saison would keep me on target for 8%, or so I thought before the yeast went nuts and gave me 9% as I mentioned in the previous post. Weizen got Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen, both were pitched around 18c and ramped 1c per day to 24c then held for 2 weeks until I was home to bottle them.

Helles Weizenbock came in at an fg of 1.016 for 6%. Primed the Saison for 3 vol and the weizen for 2.8, both are quite tasty even after only 2 weeks in the bottle, no hot alcohols or rough edges I could detect at the time, carbonation wasn't as high as expected, which is becoming a trend, maybe I'm knocking out too much CO2 when racking to bottling bucket? I figure they were still young and the carbonation will have continued to develop over the last month. First taste of the saison was weird, took a minute to put my finger on it but it was the combo of the yeast and the really fresh hops, just not a common combination in a 9% beer, but tasty, they'd mellowed and blended a bit by the 2nd taste a week or 2 later.

 

Well there you go, shows what I know and why I'll never be a BJCP judge
That's really interesting, and further proof that perhaps I've been rather unfair towards MJ, but it's cool to have my expectations shattered like that
I've never used 3726 but looking at the profile on the Wyeast site it mentions earthy notes, I wonder if that's what I was picking up.

It's been a couple of years since I've had a TK so I couldn't comment on similarity, but obviously you're right that in a yeast driven style like this that yeast selection will make a big difference.

Thanks for the recipe and details, interesting reading and this batch of swaps has been an eye opening experience for me so thanks for that

I'm out of the country for the next week so I'll get a bottle posted out to you when I get back.

 

Always good to challenge your biases. :-) That's fine as I'm away for the next while too.

 

Tonight I'm drinking a Porter sent by @Hoddy, and since the first one went awol in the post I'm grateful to him for sending another...

Aroma
Sweet chocolate primarily with hints of smooth coffee. Also some dark fruit aromas coming through, it smells very inviting.

Appearance
Very dark with beautiful ruby highlights when held to the light. A fantastic thick and creamy tan head with excellent retention all the way down the glass.

Flavour
Really rich roasted malt flavours of black coffee, with an interesting bittersweet impression, blending hints of milk chocolate and caramel sweetness with a pronounced bitterness in the finish, almost like drinking a dark roast espresso. Some pleasant fruitiness from the yeast character adds to the complexity too. Perhaps a little hint of alcohol in the finish.

Overall Impression
This is a really great porter, rich, complex and roasty with tons of flavour, each mouthful revealing more layers. The mouthfeel is great, I'm thinking there's a good bit of flaked oats or something similar in there? I'm also curious about your yeast, it's noticable without being too forward, I often use a clean yeast for porters and stouts but this works much better actually. It seems like there's a big hop addition in there which again adds to the flavour complexity and it nicely balances out the sweetness, giving a lingering bitterness in the finish. My only criticism would be that it's a little over carbonated for my taste, but I consistently get told my beers are under carbed, so I think that's just my personal preference and only a minor point really. I find that I'm often disappointed with porters, they can be great when done right but all too often they're thin, bland, lacking in complexity. But that's certainly not the case here, this is a lovely beer, well thought out and well made so I appreciate you sending this one mate

 

Hey Steve, thanks for the kind words. You are right tho. Porters for me have always mostly been thin, insipid and bland. Hence why I embarked on a journey to make one as good as I possibly could. This beer has been a labour of love since I started brewing about 5/6 years ago. And I do think it’s now getting to where I want it to be.

Spoiler alert : the yeast is wyeast London ale III. I had tried quite a few different yeasts and this one I’ve found gives the smoothest finish and gentle character. Especially with all the dark malts involved, it does give it a little something extra than a S04 or a US05 could give. But well spotted on the yeast. My view is that in these sorts of beers actually getting the yeast character right is really important. Opposite to the view that because the malt character is so strong the yeast is less important. So that and the rauch malt it does just kind of all come up together.

The hops used are a mix of brawling X and Pacific jade. In this beer I actually upped the dry hop and put in twice the normal amount of Pacific jade which I think has lifted the beer. I’m a big fan if Pacific jade.

You are right though that this beer is over carbonated. I’ve really struggled with getting dark beer carbonation right. There defo seems to be a propensity for dark beers to hold carb more than lighter beers. Even with equal amounts of oats/flaked wheat. Either way I like my porter with a good carb, this one does need a bit to chill out after pouring.

Glad you like it

 

Ah right London III, that's a clever choice and I might steal that idea for my next porter

Rauch malt you say, that's interesting. I didn't pick up on the smokiness, but there is a lovely deep roasty flavour which I had assumed was just from the dark grains. I can see how it would add a nice layer of complexity when used in smaller amounts.

 

Yeah it’s all about getting that depth in that type of beer. And even though it’s a smoked malt with all the other dark grains it does add something.