Switching from dry yeast to liquid yeast

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If I may chip in with a daft question or two...
  1. How long can liquid yeast be kept (presumably in a fridge)? For example, if I ordered, but then couldn't do my brew day when planned, how long can I leave it?
  2. Are there any additional logistical challenges when using liquid yeast?
I am open to using liquid, but have only used dry thus far as it is convenient to store and has a long shelf life.
 

foxbat

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If I may chip in with a daft question or two...
  1. How long can liquid yeast be kept (presumably in a fridge)? For example, if I ordered, but then couldn't do my brew day when planned, how long can I leave it?
  2. Are there any additional logistical challenges when using liquid yeast?
I am open to using liquid, but have only used dry thus far as it is convenient to store and has a long shelf life.
If you want life to be easy with either direct pitching or small starters then aim to be using a liquid pack within a couple of months of manufacture.

People have revived much older packs but the longer you leave it the less healthy the yeast will be and the more care it will need in bringing the cell count up to a level where you'd be confident in pitching it.
 

clib

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Yes, me too. I suspect many are, after reading this about Notty being a blend also.

Lallemand has said that Notty is a single strain taken from a multistrain handed to them by Boots.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Lallemand has said that Notty is a single strain taken from a multistrain handed to them by Boots.
My personal suspicion is that a lot of cultures of dry yeast were contaminated by the mid-2010's, there were all sorts of rumours about some of the Fermentis strains a while back. Maybe they took action to sort it of their own accord, or they were prompted into action by the multi-$m lawsuit over commercial cans exploding due to WLP090 contaminated with diastatic yeast.

That would be compatible with a single-strain origin and Ed's plating results.
 

Andrew Booth

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I use a mixture of dry and liquid yeasts on the liquid side Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Yeast for the Taylor’s Brews I do and Ringwood for my Green Label Clone. I’m doing the Five points best from the malt miller tomorrow and that’s got white labs London strain. On the dry side mainly SO4 and US05 and MJ Liberty Bell and MJ Hophead.
 

Sadfield

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My personal suspicion is that a lot of cultures of dry yeast were contaminated by the mid-2010's, there were all sorts of rumours about some of the Fermentis strains a while back. Maybe they took action to sort it of their own accord, or they were prompted into action by the multi-$m lawsuit over commercial cans exploding due to WLP090 contaminated with diastatic yeast.

That would be compatible with a single-strain origin and Ed's plating results.
Plausible, but my gut instinct would be that for Ed to get multiple colonies of two yeasts on one plating, that would be a quite a contamination.

My other feeling is that getting four strains from the original blend that all perform well on their own to a point where they get released commerciallly is quite fortuitous. Knowing they came from a blend of four, separating that blend down to a combination of lesser blends would be the next logical step, surely?
 

clib

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I use a mixture of dry and liquid yeasts on the liquid side Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Yeast for the Taylor’s Brews I do and Ringwood for my Green Label Clone. I’m doing the Five points best from the malt miller tomorrow and that’s got white labs London strain. On the dry side mainly SO4 and US05 and MJ Liberty Bell and MJ Hophead.
Not used Hophead. What does it bring to the party?
 
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I have never used a liquid yeast, i use a lot of cml yeast strains at the moment i am on a beoir trip, it is really quick and drops really clean, also use midland pia gretel and lille saison and voss in summer i have just got no4 which i believe is us-04
 

moto748

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If I may chip in with a daft question or two...
  1. How long can liquid yeast be kept (presumably in a fridge)? For example, if I ordered, but then couldn't do my brew day when planned, how long can I leave it?
  2. Are there any additional logistical challenges when using liquid yeast?
I am open to using liquid, but have only used dry thus far as it is convenient to store and has a long shelf life.
What I would say is that if you ordered a liquid yeast by mail-order, I don't see the harm in keeping it refrigerated for a while before you get round to using it, cos it has probably been sitting in a fridge from where you bought it for longer than that? The last brew I did I used a liquid yeast, which is rare for me. I'd bought it a week or so earlier, and stuck it in the fridge. It worked just fine. Personally, I have never used starters; I figure the instructions on the packet ought to be good enough. I've just slapped it and bunged it in, and it's always worked OK.
 

MickDundee

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Personally, I have never used starters; I figure the instructions on the packet ought to be good enough. I've just slapped it and bunged it in, and it's always worked OK.
From what I’ve read, the reason us Brits are recommended to always make a starter is because most of the liquid yeasts are shipped from the US and so we can’t guarantee the conditions they’ve been kept in from leaving the manufacturer to arriving with our brew shops.

You’re probably fine the vast majority of the time, but I always do a starter just to be safe.
 

Galena

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From what I’ve read, the reason us Brits are recommended to always make a starter
Just made up a starter today with a pack of WLP005 British Ale Yeast, use by date was 13 Apr 2022, manufacture date was 15 Oct 2021 so reasonably fresh.
However, using a Yeast starter calculator, it assumes for that date a viability of 82%
The batch size matters a lot with cell count, for 21 litres of Ale I need 154 Bn cells but the pack when new only has 100Bn so I am short 54 billion and so a starter is required (according to the calculator). No doubt with 82 billion cells I would 'get away with it'
So it is better to make a starter unless in this case my batch size was 11 litres, in which case no starter required.

However, the other reason to make a starter is I can easily overbuild by 100 billion cells by making a 1.5 litre starter and then I can save those 100Bn cells for the next time I want to use the yeast and make another starter, and over and over for many generations I only need 1 pack of yeast, so much cheaper than using dried yeast if you don't mind the process, which I generally enjoy.
 
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Just made up a starter today with a pack of WLP005 British Ale Yeast, use by date was 13 Apr 2022, manufacture date was 15 Oct 2021 so reasonably fresh.
However, using a Yeast starter calculator, it assumes for that date a viability of 82%
The batch size matters a lot with cell count, for 21 litres of Ale I need 154 Bn cells but the pack when new only has 100Bn so I am short 54 billion and so a starter is required (according to the calculator). No doubt with 82 billion cells I would 'get away with it'
So it is better to make a starter unless in this case my batch size was 11 litres, in which case no starter required.

However, the other reason to make a starter is I can easily overbuild by 100 billion cells by making a 1.5 litre starter and then I can save those 100Bn cells for the next time I want to use the yeast and make another starter, and over and over for many generations I only need 1 pack of yeast, so much cheaper than using dried yeast if you don't mind the process, which I generally enjoy.
Just buy dry 😂
 

Alastair70

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Just made up a starter today with a pack of WLP005 British Ale Yeast, use by date was 13 Apr 2022, manufacture date was 15 Oct 2021 so reasonably fresh.
However, using a Yeast starter calculator, it assumes for that date a viability of 82%
The batch size matters a lot with cell count, for 21 litres of Ale I need 154 Bn cells but the pack when new only has 100Bn so I am short 54 billion and so a starter is required (according to the calculator). No doubt with 82 billion cells I would 'get away with it'
So it is better to make a starter unless in this case my batch size was 11 litres, in which case no starter required.

However, the other reason to make a starter is I can easily overbuild by 100 billion cells by making a 1.5 litre starter and then I can save those 100Bn cells for the next time I want to use the yeast and make another starter, and over and over for many generations I only need 1 pack of yeast, so much cheaper than using dried yeast if you don't mind the process, which I generally enjoy.
That’s what I’m doing. But the latest lot of sachets have a use by date rather than a mfg date. I’ve got in new pouches of Wyeast Munich Lager and White Labs Irish Ale and I’m not sure how to approach pitch rates.
 
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