Temperature and bad tasting ale

[WilliamGladstone99]

Hello,
Hope you folks remember me. I haven’t done any home brewing in a long time but hope to get some done before Christmas.

I believe my last posting dealt with off-flavours. I believed my sterilisation had not worked properly so I was left with a bad taste.

I recently spoke to a Brewster in a brewery. She told me that temperature may be responsible for off taste. I placed wort in primary fermentation vessel in kitchen whose temp was about 20 C. She said this would mean temp in pfv would have been about 30 C which would definitely create bad flavours.
The only alternative place I have to brew is my garage which is about 10 C. My Brewster said fermentation here would take much longer.
So is this the solution or not?
How much longer would it take? What temp should wort be? Should I do like Craig Faraway and buy a heat belt?

Thanks in advance
WG
Britain’s greatest prime minister

 

[rodabod]

It depends on what yeast you are using, but most British ale yeasts will work between around 17-20c.

The temperature of the wort when you pitch is important. I use a k-type thermocouple to measure this. Very cheap.

An ambient temp of 10c or so is probably too low unless you use something like a bath with an aquarium heater to sit the fermenting vessel in. 20c is probably better, but I'd prefer something closer to 17/18c for most British yeast.

 

[LarryF]

I have this at the moment where I'd let my S05 brew hit 27c (Doh!!!). During the summer I used Mauribrew 514 and Mangrove Jacks Workhorse yeasts both of which work well up to 32c. They rode out the summer temps with no off flavours at all. AsI don't have a brew fridge to keep my FV cool the higher temp yeasts are a good way of dealing with summer temps and with re-pitching from the trub it's nice and cheap as well.

 

[Leon103]

How did she work out that the fv would be 30c inside? Just buy a aquarium heater

 

[Cwrw666]

It depends on what yeast you are using, but most British ale yeasts will work between around 17-20c.

The temperature of the wort when you pitch is important. I use a k-type thermocouple to measure this. Very cheap.

I use my finger - even cheaper.:lol:

A 23L FV will not get much warmer than ambient temperature, because it's a small volume of liquid for the surface area. A brewer in a microbrewery might find a bigger temperature difference because the volume of liquid is pretty big compared to the surface area.
It's the same reason why if a farmer bales his hay slightly too soon, and it heats up in the bale (as it does), that it's not a problem until he makes a blooming great stack of it which promptly bursts into flames.

 

[TartanSpecial]

I've got a thermowell in my 5 gallon batch conical, and at 20.5 ambient, day two and three of the fermentation (when its at its most vigorous...takes 12 hours to really get going) the temp will go up to 25 C if no action is taken...but certainly not 30C. I find that if I move the fermenter to a room which is at 17-18C, and have a fan blowing on it it keeps is at around 20. So if you have a cooler room in the house move it there for a couple of days. By day 3 or 4 the rate of fermentation is slowing, and the temp gradually decreases. I normally move it back into the 20.5 room on day 4. All this depends on the brew you are doing... a big 8%abv brew generates more heat than a 4% brew.

 

[clibit]

I've got a thermowell in my 5 gallon batch conical, and at 20.5 ambient, day two and three of the fermentation (when its at its most vigorous...takes 12 hours to really get going) the temp will go up to 25 C if no action is taken...but certainly not 30C. I find that if I move the fermenter to a room which is at 17-18C, and have a fan blowing on it it keeps is at around 20. So if you have a cooler room in the house move it there for a couple of days. By day 3 or 4 the rate of fermentation is slowing, and the temp gradually decreases. I normally move it back into the 20.5 room on day 4. All this depends on the brew you are doing... a big 8%abv brew generates more heat than a 4% brew.

This tallies with other accounts I've read from people who measure the temperature inside and outside the FV. If your ambient temperature is around 20C the beer will climb to 24/25 during the busiest fermentation period so you need an ambient temperature around 16, I guess, for the first few days.

 

[Mjgclutch]

This makes for interesting reading, and I'll certainly re think my approach. I think I'm guilty of pitching at too high a temperature, and although my external temperature was 19 degrees, with the exothermal reaction taking place, this would mean that the temp was too high for the first few crucial days of fermentation.

 

[MyQul]

I've got a thermowell in my 5 gallon batch conical, and at 20.5 ambient, day two and three of the fermentation (when its at its most vigorous...takes 12 hours to really get going) the temp will go up to 25 C if no action is taken...but certainly not 30C. I find that if I move the fermenter to a room which is at 17-18C, and have a fan blowing on it it keeps is at around 20. So if you have a cooler room in the house move it there for a couple of days. By day 3 or 4 the rate of fermentation is slowing, and the temp gradually decreases. I normally move it back into the 20.5 room on day 4. All this depends on the brew you are doing... a big 8%abv brew generates more heat than a 4% brew.

This is interesting. I was wondering about this once and did a bit of googling. I read a number of posts on forums (mainly HBT) that people, who also had a thermowell in there FV/conical, only reported an increase of about 1C

 

[TartanSpecial]

This is interesting. I was wondering about this once and did a bit of googling. I read a number of posts on forums (mainly HBT) that people, who also had a thermowell in there FV/conical, only reported an increase of about 1C

That's odd. My brews are generally 6% plus abv...I wonder if the 1degc reports are based on weaker brews? I take care to vigorously shake three lots of 7-8 ltr batches 80times each when transferring cooled wort from the boiler to the fv, and pitch decent quantise of yeast, esp current brew with saf05 from a previous brew, so my fermentation do tend to take off quickly and ferment vigorously for the first couple of days. I'll take pics of my next brew with wlp 002 comparing in fv temp with room temp.

 

[MyQul]

That's odd. My brews are generally 6% plus abv...I wonder if the 1degc reports are based on weaker brews? I take care to vigorously shake three lots of 7-8 ltr batches 80times each when transferring cooled wort from the boiler to the fv, and pitch decent quantise of yeast, esp current brew with saf05 from a previous brew, so my fermentation do tend to take off quickly and ferment vigorously for the first couple of days. I'll take pics of my next brew with wlp 002 comparing in fv temp with room temp.

It well be that the brews were weaker. I don't remember OG being talked about. Also yeast strain will have an input too. I hope to be getting one of those brewmaster SS brewing buckets with a thermowell next year so will be able to do my own temp readings

 

[clibit]

1*C is not what I've come across in my forum travels. And 1*C doesn't seem right to me. I have a stick on thermometer on my FVs and they read higher than ambient temperature during the main stage of fermentation, more than 1*C higher.

 

[MyQul]

1*C is not what I've come across in my forum travels. And 1*C doesn't seem right to me. I have a stick on thermometer on my FVs and they read higher than ambient temperature during the main stage of fermentation, more than 1*C higher.

I'm pretty sure you guys are correct. Intuition tells me it's got to be more than 1C but I've never really been able to test it out as I don't like opening my FV before its finished fermenting.

 

[TartanSpecial]

this was my last brew using wlp002 after I'd got the temp of the brew down from around 20.8 or was it 21. something? (for memory) to a more respectable level of 20.2 using a fan in the room which was 17.4