The Homebrew Twang experiment.

Discussion in 'Beer Kit Brewing Discussion.' started by Gulpitdarn, Jun 22, 2019.

Help Support The Homebrew Forum UK by donating:

  1. Oct 21, 2019 #21

    DJDave

    DJDave

    DJDave

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    8
    Yea as a coverall for "twang".

    But maybe more descriptive versions of peoples personal "twang"

    What twang are you suffering from

    I have suffered from a medicinal, antiseptic, germolene reek "twang" cubed. Others might describe it as plastic, vinyl, hospital, Iodine, Bromine. An organoleptic analyst might say Chlorophenol. I have only ever found this on all grain brew never a kit, it rendered the brews undrinkable for me.

    Can be caused by the presence of Chlorine or Chloramines in your brewing liquor. Contamination from sanitising chemicals.

    Since suffering from it I prepare the liquor the day before brewday filling Hot Liquor Kettle and Mash Tun with appropriate volumes as vigorously as possible and adding 1/2 a crushed camden tablet to each. The vigorous filling, over nightstand & the action of sodium metabisulphite seem to have done the trick in removing chlorine so it can't react with the polyphenols extracted from the grain during the mash.

    The "twang" I mostly associate with poor homebrew is a yeasty, fruity, estery aroma a combination of the poor yeasts provided with some kits and overenthusiastic unrestrained hot fermentation.

    https://www.belgiansmaak.com/off-flavours-in-beer-off-flavours/

    https://www.winning-homebrew.com/off-flavors.html

    https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/biosci...oduction-to-beer-flavour-saf-21-july-2017.pdf
     
  2. Oct 21, 2019 #22

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,302
    Likes Received:
    781
    For me oxidation is one of the biggest causes of twang. It gets described as a sherry flavour. During a tasting one of my friends actually used the word sherry but it was a beer I'd tarted up with multiple dry spicings so hell yeah, the fermenter was opened every five minutes and tinkered with. I had a huge run of beers that stuck at 1.020 when I was using s-04 and even after it had stopped I got into the bad habit of opening the fermenter and throwing the hydrometer in. If it was my multi-scale hydrometer that also meant 5 minutes of spinning the fekking thing to try and get the right scale facing towards me. I still haven't fully got out of doing it but I'm much better. I'm going to just pull out the airlock and use a tiny pipe to get enough for the refractometer from now on.

    I also bought a ton of beer kits that were at or just going out of date - checking new tins of the same thing it seemed like they would have been made nearly two years before. Old malt extract being a cause of the type of twang that tastes (this will be a crapy description) sort of weirdly caramelly, slightly sweet flavour that I sometimes thought of as metallic was something I had loads of and that's what I absolutely associate with kit twang.

    I did the grapefruit IPA kit I won on here which was really in date and I didn't dick about with to oxidise and that's got zero twang**. I did a 73 day in tasting yesterday and even though the hop flavour has slightly changed there's still no twang. I'm writing up the review of that soon. As an aside when I was doing the tasting I put some into a separate glass and degassed it and the flavour got so much better. At 2.3 vols of carbonation it had a slight pithyness to the grapefruit flavour, but then degassed a little it mellowed out to a nice marmalade and straight away got 2 to 3 more points out of 10.

    The oxidation tests I'm doing for this thread are now approaching 4 months in. I had a few the other night but got so drunk I can't remember a damn thing and I didn't take any notes. Sadly I think that kit might have to a bit oxidised because there was trouble with the ferment but I'll see how it goes and do it again if I have to. Early doors the ones I put sulphite in... yihhhhh. I might have calculated badly.

    ** The very last one bottled had tons of headspace and that one tasted far more 'amateurish' as my mate described it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    Brew_DD2 likes this.
  3. Oct 21, 2019 #23

    Keats

    Keats

    Keats

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Sheffield
    That’s about the closest description I’ve seen of what I think of as twang. Sort of like flat coke from a can.
     
    Drunkula likes this.
  4. Oct 21, 2019 #24

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,302
    Likes Received:
    781
    Omg - that's a fantastic comparison. The thing is some people might associate the clove off taste with that, but maybe that's also what you meant.
     
  5. Oct 21, 2019 #25

    Keats

    Keats

    Keats

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Cheers! Just what I thought of when I read your description. I wasn’t thinking of cloves, don’t get that from coke at all although others might.
     
  6. Oct 22, 2019 #26

    DixeySJ

    DixeySJ

    DixeySJ

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    NULL
    When I started with all grain, I was very disappointed to find my first couple of brews still had the 'oh, that tastes like homebrew' character. However, since I have paid proper attention to fermentation i.e. controlling the temperature at a steady 18-19C and allowing it to progress through at least 2 weeks this has completely disappeared. One day I might go back to a kit and see if it also tastes better with the same approach. Trouble is there is always one more beer I want to try to make first ... ;)
     
  7. Oct 22, 2019 #27

    Bobtheblob

    Bobtheblob

    Bobtheblob

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2019
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    26
    I, and a couple of mates did a few beer kits back in the early 90s. They all had a certain taste about them that I'd probably call the homebrew twang. The beer got us pissed and that's what it was all about back when you're 19 or 20 years old. They tasted pretty crap but they were fun. I'm now a few decades older and just got into beer kits again recently. And I can't say I've noticed that "twang" that I remember from all those years ago. Maybe I got lucky and did some good brews, or/and maybe they were good kits. I used regular tap water and we live in a really hard water area.
    Currently drinking tonight a Youngs IPA, a Youngs Saison which are both brilliant and a California Conniseur Merlot. No problems. Or maybe I don't notice...
     
  8. Oct 24, 2019 #28

    itry

    itry

    itry

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    31
    I have had the same problem over the summer all grain having that taste. kind of soapy , kind of dull . The things i put it down to were , was it oxidised? Cleanliness ? Fermentation temps?

    Im super clean , the beer was sealed so no oxygen leak. It must have been the wild fermentation temps? the recent brews ive been doing have all been controlled. I have opened one and their isnt a problem.

    i like the idea of a temp controlled wet bag kit. brewing it using all the new skills ive learnt since doing proper brewing.
     
  9. Oct 24, 2019 #29

    DJDave

    DJDave

    DJDave

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    8
    Soapy .....is it soapy as in washing up liquid soapy, bar of soap soapy or a more chemical dertergenty aroma?

    The chemical version is possibly chlorophenols mentioned above.

    Washing up liquid/Soap Soapy might be contamination from cleaning - especially the glass you drink out of.

    You can get a soapy (bar of soap soapy) taste from the breakdown of fatty acids in trub if left too long in fermenter. Once fermentation has ceased or you have reached your target AG transfer to another vessel.

    Not oxidation - bready, biscuity, papery, cardboard. In lager often honey.

    Haven't heard of soapy from to higher fermentation temp
     
    Chippy_Tea likes this.
  10. Oct 24, 2019 #30

    itry

    itry

    itry

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    31
    @DJDave next time i manage it i will send you a bottle.


    It just tastes off
     
  11. Oct 27, 2019 #31

    Ale

    Ale

    Ale

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    229
    Location:
    Brighton
    When i mentioned the twang I got, I had it with the only AG I did and I had it with tap water and with bottled water.

    Been sorting out my old equipment.i cant find my hydrometer but other than that its only the FV I need to replace as it got cracked.
     
  12. Oct 29, 2019 #32

    GhostShip

    GhostShip

    GhostShip

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    270
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    I still think oxidation is a major factor in the twang.

    When I do my next kit, I may go straight from FV to bottle. As careful as I try to be, it strikes me that a certain amount of oxygen must get into the beer when I'm transferring from FV to barrel and then from barrel to bottle. Going straight to bottle would also save me the hassle of sanitising the barrel! If I add 'dry' sugar to each bottle, I assume that will dissolve over time? If I dissolve the sugar first in boiling water (which is what I do at the moment), does anyone have any tips for the best way to work out how much liquid I would need to add to each bottle? Would a syringe be a good purchase?

    I appreciate that carbonation drops would be easiest, but it seems a very expensive way of adding sugar to beer.
     
  13. Oct 29, 2019 #33

    Horners

    Horners

    Horners

    Landlord. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    187
    Location:
    NULL
    Think its just maths. So lets say carbonating 40 pints to 2 volumes that is say 86g of table sugar. Dissolve 86g in 200ml boiling water and syringe 5ml into each pint bottle.
     
    cushyno and GhostShip like this.
  14. Oct 29, 2019 #34

    dad_of_jon

    dad_of_jon

    dad_of_jon

    Beer designer

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Messages:
    3,563
    Likes Received:
    1,510
    Location:
    Swansea
    it's what I do. The water is from chase spring and is also sold in tesco & aldi's for 17p - note that whilst boiling water removes chlorine it wont remove chloramine so a campden tablet is the other way to go.
     
  15. Oct 30, 2019 #35

    Andy__C

    Andy__C

    Andy__C

    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'm in this exact position right now. I'd had this consistent "taste" across around 4 years of brewing with Kits which I always thought was the "kit Twang" everyone writes about on forums.... and never having tasted any other homebrew. It is this weird almost clove-ish, dentist mouthwash taste... which somewhat describes it but also not really.

    I did my first All Grain BIAB a month or so ago, was super thrilled to now be trying the new method and looking forward to having a vastly superior beer. The first Pale Ale I did, coming out of the fermentor tasted amazing. 3 weeks conditioning in the bottle and there it is - the same taste (albeit not as over-powering).


    Oddly though I haven't really had this with the Stout I've recently started trying after BAIB, its come out really well.... but I never really did stout kits other than the odd one or two (and one amazing but weird RIS).

    I've since got myself a fermentation fridge and there is an IPA 10 days into a consistent 18.5c fermentation. I'm going to raise the temp by 1 degree a day over the next few days before bottling. I'm wondering whether I need to be mindful of the bottle conditioning temperature and keeping that steady as well.
     
  16. Oct 30, 2019 #36

    johncrobinson

    johncrobinson

    johncrobinson

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2019
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    82
    I know this is getting into "advanced" brewing but boiling or treatment with sodium thiosuphate will take care of most chlorine problems but chloramine is a different kettle of fish. the yeast will attempt to use the amonia)However i think homebrew should be reatively unafected.
    my dad sometimes used rainwater all in the interests of experimentiation of course
     
  17. Nov 1, 2019 #37

    GhostShip

    GhostShip

    GhostShip

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    270
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    I've made kits with bottled spring water and got the twang, I've made kits with tap water and not got the twang. Personally, I don't think the water is a major factor.
     
    DixeySJ likes this.
  18. Nov 1, 2019 #38

    DixeySJ

    DixeySJ

    DixeySJ

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    NULL
    Good luck with that, please share the outcome. My guess is that once fermentation is fully completed, the conditioning temperature is less critical, although I like to aim for around 14C - if the fridge isn't being used, it goes in there, otherwise by 'beer shed' is a reasonable temperature in winter! Personally I always condition for a couple of weeks in a barrel before bottling although I use a lot of mini-kegs and don't bother if its going in them. Happy drinking!
     
  19. Nov 1, 2019 #39

    DixeySJ

    DixeySJ

    DixeySJ

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    NULL
    Agree. Water is the solution, but never the answer ...
     
  20. Nov 2, 2019 #40

    RichK

    RichK

    RichK

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    NULL
    About six months ago, I went AG (BIAB). A few weeks ago, I "had" to do a brew in a hurry so bought a Festival Pilgrims Hope kit. It's the first time I've definitively noticed the "twang"
     

Share This Page