The UK Government (currently lead by Boris Johnson) could do things quicker and better!

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MyQul

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Okay, if I'm having a run of criticisms, I'll point one your way: Do not read or listen to anything more than the basic guidance or else you might convince yourself to jump off a tall building! That would be an unnecessary waste.
Tbh, I'm following advice and just staying in unless going to the supermarket. But I have to go to work as I'm unable to work from home (apart from a few phone calls )
 

Dutto

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To get back to the original purpose of the Thread, here's a number of suggestions put today by the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnel:

“The Chancellor has shifted direction but unfortunately not far enough or fast enough.

The Government must give people the economic security to stay at home by lifting the level of Statutory Sick Pay, but it appears that the Government hasn’t done that today. Sick pay is being left at a level that the Health Secretary said he could not live on, yet this is what the self-employed are being asked to get by on.

The Chancellor’s wage protection plan sets out no obligation for employers to keep staff on, and no commitment to full wages being paid, with the cap on incomes meaning that many people will take a significant pay cut.

This will also take some weeks to roll out at a time when wages need to be guaranteed more urgently.

Other benefits, including for carers, are not being lifted adequately.

The Chancellor said he would do whatever it takes, but he can and should go further – and we will keep working constructively with Government to ensure the best possible response to the Coronavirus crisis.”


I listened to every second of this afternoons "briefing" and couldn't have put it better myself!

Enjoy!
 

Dutto

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For anyone who has nightmares and wakes up in a cold sweat I recommend that they read and digest the following article. It was written by a Doctor in the NHS.

"As a doctor, I have always known that a time like this might come. That there might be a national public health emergency of some kind, and that my colleagues and I would be deployed to the front line. We were aware of this risk when we signed up to the profession. We know that we have a moral duty to serve the public and to save the lives of others, even if it comes at great risk to our own.

But what is about to happen is beyond what any of us have imagined. Not because of the scale of the crisis that lies ahead, but because we have been abandoned by our government.

The government’s approach to COVID-19 has diverged dramatically from World Health Organization (WHO) guidelines, which call for widespread testing, contact tracing, quarantine, and stringent social distancing policies. We have seen these strategies work elsewhere in the world – in China, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore. As someone who has trained in public health myself, I know that this is the bread and butter of epidemiological intervention. So I am in shock that our government’s “herd immunity” strategy meant that in the crucial first weeks of this crisis it decided to do, effectively, nothing.

The Director General of the WHO said that to shift from containment to mitigation was “wrong and dangerous.” Richard Horton, the Editor-in-Chief of the Lancet, likened the government’s policy to “playing roulette with the public.” Anthony Costello, an ex-director at the WHO and Professor of Global Health at University College London, called it “reckless.”
Perhaps most shocking of all, the government decided to stop widespread testing. This doesn’t make any sense. How are we supposed to know what’s coming down the pipeline if we don’t have the faintest clue of how quickly this virus is spreading? How are we supposed to know when and where to tighten our interventions? We are completely in the dark.
Meanwhile, NHS wards are quickly filling up with COVID-19 patients. Frontline staff do not have adequate protective gear. Some of them are beginning to show symptoms themselves, and yet they are not being tested and therefore cannot know if they are spreading the disease. They fear for their families.

We know that the infection rate for doctors working in this pandemic is high; in Lombardy it is 20%. We will be exposed to an extraordinary viral load. How is it that healthcare workers in China and the rest of East Asia are equipped with hazmat suits and respirators, while the government of one of the richest countries in the world cannot even issue us basic masks? We are not being treated with the dignity and care due to frontline workers. Instead, it feels like we are being treated as cannon fodder.

The scary thing is that all of this comes after a decade of brutal austerity. Following cuts to the health service, the UK has been left with one of the lowest intensive care capacities in all of Europe, and among the fewest hospital beds per capita. The NHS will be overwhelmed in short order. We are being set up for failure. Like my colleagues in Italy, we will be forced to make decisions about who to treat and who to let die.

If I were confident that my government was doing its utmost to protect people, I would join the fight wholeheartedly. But I see no signs of such good faith. I feel that my colleagues and I are being deserted to a disastrous fate. We are being made to take the fall for a decade of austerity, and for negligence and dithering at the top. Who will take responsibility for the lives that will be lost as a result of these decisions? Who will be held accountable?

In paediatrics, we don’t take chances with people’s lives. If a baby comes in and there’s a threat of infection, we treat swiftly because the risk of delay is so high. We can’t afford to lose a single moment. Similarly, given how dangerous this virus is, it is imperative that we act now, on the evidence of what works.

We need rapid rollout of widespread testing, contact tracing and quarantine. We need to shut down major cities to bare bones. We need to protect frontline staff with the highest quality equipment. We need to requisition factories to produce ventilators. We need to expand ICU capacity and commandeer more space for hospital beds. With any luck, we can hold this virus off long enough to develop an effective treatment, or even a vaccine.

The government needs to release funding for all of this, as quickly as possible. And the private sector needs to step up too – it’s in the national interest.

We dare not passively consent to this government’s inaction. Not when the chorus of expert dissent grows louder every day. To Boris Johnson and the Chief Medical Officer, I say: please, turn this ship around while you still can."



Reference:
 

foxy

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For anyone who has nightmares and wakes up in a cold sweat I recommend that they read and digest the following article. It was written by a Doctor in the NHS.

"As a doctor, I have always known that a time like this might come. That there might be a national public health emergency of some kind, and that my colleagues and I would be deployed to the front line. We were aware of this risk when we signed up to the profession. We know that we have a moral duty to serve the public and to save the lives of others, even if it comes at great risk to our own.

But what is about to happen is beyond what any of us have imagined. Not because of the scale of the crisis that lies ahead, but because we have been abandoned by our government.

The government’s approach to COVID-19 has diverged dramatically from World Health Organization (WHO) guidelines, which call for widespread testing, contact tracing, quarantine, and stringent social distancing policies. We have seen these strategies work elsewhere in the world – in China, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore. As someone who has trained in public health myself, I know that this is the bread and butter of epidemiological intervention. So I am in shock that our government’s “herd immunity” strategy meant that in the crucial first weeks of this crisis it decided to do, effectively, nothing.

The Director General of the WHO said that to shift from containment to mitigation was “wrong and dangerous.” Richard Horton, the Editor-in-Chief of the Lancet, likened the government’s policy to “playing roulette with the public.” Anthony Costello, an ex-director at the WHO and Professor of Global Health at University College London, called it “reckless.”
Perhaps most shocking of all, the government decided to stop widespread testing. This doesn’t make any sense. How are we supposed to know what’s coming down the pipeline if we don’t have the faintest clue of how quickly this virus is spreading? How are we supposed to know when and where to tighten our interventions? We are completely in the dark.
Meanwhile, NHS wards are quickly filling up with COVID-19 patients. Frontline staff do not have adequate protective gear. Some of them are beginning to show symptoms themselves, and yet they are not being tested and therefore cannot know if they are spreading the disease. They fear for their families.

We know that the infection rate for doctors working in this pandemic is high; in Lombardy it is 20%. We will be exposed to an extraordinary viral load. How is it that healthcare workers in China and the rest of East Asia are equipped with hazmat suits and respirators, while the government of one of the richest countries in the world cannot even issue us basic masks? We are not being treated with the dignity and care due to frontline workers. Instead, it feels like we are being treated as cannon fodder.

The scary thing is that all of this comes after a decade of brutal austerity. Following cuts to the health service, the UK has been left with one of the lowest intensive care capacities in all of Europe, and among the fewest hospital beds per capita. The NHS will be overwhelmed in short order. We are being set up for failure. Like my colleagues in Italy, we will be forced to make decisions about who to treat and who to let die.

If I were confident that my government was doing its utmost to protect people, I would join the fight wholeheartedly. But I see no signs of such good faith. I feel that my colleagues and I are being deserted to a disastrous fate. We are being made to take the fall for a decade of austerity, and for negligence and dithering at the top. Who will take responsibility for the lives that will be lost as a result of these decisions? Who will be held accountable?

In paediatrics, we don’t take chances with people’s lives. If a baby comes in and there’s a threat of infection, we treat swiftly because the risk of delay is so high. We can’t afford to lose a single moment. Similarly, given how dangerous this virus is, it is imperative that we act now, on the evidence of what works.

We need rapid rollout of widespread testing, contact tracing and quarantine. We need to shut down major cities to bare bones. We need to protect frontline staff with the highest quality equipment. We need to requisition factories to produce ventilators. We need to expand ICU capacity and commandeer more space for hospital beds. With any luck, we can hold this virus off long enough to develop an effective treatment, or even a vaccine.

The government needs to release funding for all of this, as quickly as possible. And the private sector needs to step up too – it’s in the national interest.

We dare not passively consent to this government’s inaction. Not when the chorus of expert dissent grows louder every day. To Boris Johnson and the Chief Medical Officer, I say: please, turn this ship around while you still can."



Reference:
I wish you had have put the link at the top of the page, I wouldn't have bothered reading it.
They are a real socialist organisation of the 1st degree. Anyone who thinks Corbyn is left wing he comes across as a left wing Tory compared to that mob.
Marvel Comics would be more truthful but not as entertaining than Open Democracy.
 

Chippy_Tea

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I have asked more than once for the thread to stay on topic and I have explained why so you have two options either stay on topic or the thread is closed I will be removing all off topic posts from last nigh this is not going to turn into a playground for trolls.
 
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Dutto

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Sorry to disappoint you, but nothing within the above article is "Off Topic"!

The article points out that the Government could do things "quicker and better" by following the advice being given to them; it even lays down the source of such advice and the fact that the Government isn't following it.

Again, there is a threat that the Thread will be closed. All I can say is "Go ahead. Just don't attempt to make out that the Thread has drifted off topic because it hasn't."

BTW, under the headline "Hotel made staff homeless in 'admin error'" the BBC text service states:

"Staff at a Highland hotel have been sacked and made homeless amid the coronavirus outbreak.

The owners of the Coylumbridge Hotel near Aviemore were told on Thursday by management to leave the hotel in the wake of the coronavirus outbreak.

They were given a letter dated 19th March, to say that the hotel was "taking the latest government advice" and that staff employment had been terminated.

The action resulted in widespread criticism from politicians and a public backlash on social media.

Brittania Hotels has now apologised and blamed an administrative error."


:laugh8: :laugh8: That would be after yesterday's announcement that they would be getting 80% of the wages paid by the Government one presumes!

Surely, this is yet another example of where the Government could have done something quicker?
 

Dutto

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Here's a good one for "better and quicker".

At another place I saw a Post where a man was suggesting that people should be tested for the virus and those found to be clear should then be allowed to go and drink in Wetherspoons! (As it was in a Skegness related Facebook page I can presume that it may not have been the CEO of Wetherspoons; despite the fact that he didn't want his pubs to be shut.)

Combining this with listening to the Head of the World Health Organisation telling the nations of the world about a week ago where he said "I only have three words of advice 'Test, test and test.'" I decided to see how the UK Government was doing; and wasn't all that surprised!

"As of 9am on 20 March 2020, 66,976 people have been tested in the UK, of which 62,993 were confirmed negative and 3,983 were confirmed positive.

As of 1pm, 177 patients in the UK who tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19) have died."


Remember the "Test, test and test'." advice? The population of the UK in 2018 is put at 66,440,000 and 66,976 means that only 0.1% of the UK population has been tested.

Also, according to some figures, the NHS employs over one million people so this figure of 66,976 means that, even if ALL the testing was done for NHS employees, only about 7% of them would have been tested!

Didn't our PM announce some kind of "testing breakthrough" a couple of days back? If he did then the figures show that yet again the Government is at the "Day late and dollar short!" stage when it comes to following WHO advice!


 

Dutto

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Latest figures:
  • Confirmed UK cases 3,983
  • New cases 714
  • UK deaths 177
Data from Public Health England at 12:32 GMT 21 Mar 2020.

Also today, Posted by Mike Sivier in Conservative Party, Coronavirus, Politics

Richard Horton Posted "Don’t take my word for it; this information comes from leading medical journal The Lancet.

It said it took a study from Imperial to understand the likely burden of COVID-19 on the NHS. But read the first paper we published on COVID-19 on Jan 24. 32% admitted to ITU with 15% mortality. We have wasted 7 weeks. This crisis was entirely preventable. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/pm-tells-britons-to-avoid-non-essential-contact-with-others?CMP=share_btn_tw …

He points out that the current strategy of “suppression” was recommended by The Lancet on January 24. That’s now eight weeks ago.

That’s the strategy followed by China, South Korea, Taiwan and other countries that have been successful in reducing the rate of infection. China is now reporting no new cases at all.

And it was also recommended by the World Health Organisation (WHO).

The Conservative government is saying the science has changed, citing a report by Imperial College which states that Boris Johnson’s former policy of “mitigation” – allowing the virus to spread to create “herd immunity” – would lead to 250,000 deaths, both from the virus and because people with other illnesses would be denied treatment by an overwhelmed NHS.

(Fears are high that other patients will still be passed over for treatment –including cancer patients.)

But the information in the Imperial College report was already available when Johnson was forming his “mitigation” policy.

Writing in Byline Times, Mike Buckley stated that the government was right to think “herd immunity” was worth having – but ignored the fact that it has never been achieved through mass infection; it has only been managed via vaccination."


Yet again, the Government is accused of being "A day late and a dollar short!" (actually eight weeks late), this time in a Conservative Party publication!

NB
I've put the references at the top of the Post so that Conservative Party followers don't need to read negative comments that their own party are publishing. The article was actually reported through another publication, of which they may not approve; no matter how true the information is! athumb..
 

Dutto

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Remember what happened yesterday? The PM stood at a lectern and told us all "We are telling cafes, pubs, bars and restaurants to close tonight ... and not to open tomorrow." So here is the result from Skegness today:

"Thousands of people have been heading to seaside attractions in the sunshine despite government advice to avoid social gatherings due to coronavirus.

Lincolnshire's police and crime commissioner called for caravan sites and arcades in Skegness to shut. PCC Marc Jones said there were "hundreds of thousands of visitors".

Mr Jones said it was "time for everyone to be socially responsible or be made to be". Local councillor Jimmy Brookes said it was "madness," adding: "Skegness is packed, cafes and arcades are open."

Skegness dentist Dr Mitchell Clark, who voluntarily shut his practice last week over the coronavirus outbreak, said many local businesses were "acting like nothing is happening". In a video posted on Facebook he called for caravan sites and businesses to close and people to remain at home.

"I was appalled to see as I drove home Skegness looking like it does on a busy summer day," he said. "I view these actions as massively, massively socially irresponsible and I personally think those involved should be ashamed of themselves." He added: "We are a small town. We have a cottage hospital supported by two main district hospitals and this is a disaster waiting to happen."

On Friday Butlin's announced it was closing its Skegness resort as well as its sites in Bognor Regis and Minehead.

Lincolnshire Police said: "We expect business owners will want to support the measures designed to keep us all safe. If officers see specified businesses open, they will remind them of the government advice."


So, no-one seems to be taking any notice of the Government with regard to keeping their distance from each other and the Lincolnshire Police don't seem to be bothering about this in Skegness. Not to worry, they must have the NHS side of things sorted.

Unfortunately, today the Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary, commented on the government’s statement about food supplies and panic-buying and felt constrained to say:

“The government has been too slow and too quiet on reassuring people that there will be enough food and supplies, and this has contributed to panic-buying and vulnerable people and key workers missing out. We are working constructively with the government but its communication on this crucial issue has not been good enough.

We need more leadership from Boris Johnson. We are calling for the government to use a largescale public advertising campaign to amplify public health advice, tackle misinformation and provide assurances about food security.

Too often during this crisis the government has been behind the curve and behind other countries. We need plans that will be suitable for the weeks to come, not the week we have just been through.”


After the PM told all pubs to shut last night and not reopen today, the Swan Inn decided that it was a Farm Shop and reopened today. It urged customers to keep a distance from each other and put up a blackboard with the following message on it: "Spread the LOVE not Corona. Give people space. Support our community. ♥"

Another "Day late and dollar short." from the Government because it is obvious to everyone that no-one believes what the Government is telling them; or if they do believe what they are being told then they are ignoring it.

Personally, I think that the actions of the Swan Inn shows pure contempt for what the Government is trying to achieve; and it's the Government's fault for failing to enforce what needs to be done!

The Government needs to act quicker and explain things better if they ever expect to reach their goals and get the British public on-side!

 

Dutto

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Another thing that could be done quicker and better is the acquisition of extra resources for the NHS.

Today, the Shadow Health Secretary, commenting on the deal NHS England has reached with private hospitals, said:

“Ministers urgently need to scale up NHS capacity. As we have consistently highlighted, after years of under-resourcing the NHS simply does not have enough ICU beds, ventilators and staff.

We welcome any move that brings extra capacity in quickly, but many will question why the government isn’t simply requisitioning these facilities rather than paying for them through the NHS’s overstretched budget.”

"Quicker" is obvious when we look at the way in which the number of new patients is growing "Better" would be to requisition facilities through central government rather than through an already overstretched NHS budget.

BTW, the reason we need to requisition private hospital facilities is due to cuts made to the NHS budget over the "austerity years". Anyone with any dealings with the NHS has seen a fall in standards and the employees of the NHS have been telling us for years that it was "an accident waiting to happen"; and now it is apparently happening!
 

Richie_asg1

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It would be easy for government to requisition all available dust masks in stock at Screwfix and other industrial suppliers and give them to NHS staff. But has anyone even mentioned it? Seems money better spent than some extra cash to support businesses.
Part of me has a suspicion that they want to kill off as many as possible to avoid paying pensions, housing crisis, unemployment and any number of good excuses to wipe out a few million people.
Regarding the phrase "Herd Immunity," that didn't work very well when our cows developed BSE. We were burning fields full of them to control it. Not sure I have ever seen it work. Maybe that's where all the lost civilisations went?
When an enemy invades your country do you wait 2 weeks before doing something about it? I don't think so.
 

johncrobinson

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"Herd Immunity" that sounds like one of Cummings ideas.!!!

Rest assured something WILL be done.
That is when the money men and the landed gentry start keeling over and not before.
 

An Ankoù

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Well I only had three days self employed work this week and my van startermoter pack up Friday had this fixed as mot booked in for Monday so no food shop this week no wipes sanitizer or binbags. Its a joke for us I'm afraid and no way will we be self isolating like this.
How many more are in the same boat as Nige? What can he do? There must be thousands and something needs to be done so that they can look after themselves.
 

Dutto

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A "heads up". I've just Posted a Chart on the "Coronavirus" Thread that compares the progress of the coronavirus in Italy and the UK. I cannot verify the figures; but they don't look too skewed to me.

BTW,
I notice that the statements made above that have been ridiculed because of their source, have not been proved to be wrong. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but even I expect better from people who condemn things purely because they don't agree with them.
 

Dutto

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I've just listened to the PM's Briefing today.

The PM said that if people didn't start following the Governments advice on "social distancing" then the Government would introduce sterner measures. This is the same threat he has been making for the last three days.

It was at the questions later that one of the journalists asked the Prime Minister "People are ignoring the advice on 'social distancing' already, so could you please tell us what 'sterner measures' you plan to introduce and who will enforce them?"

There then followed about ten minutes of waffle where the Prime Minister either couldn't or wouldn't answer the question. Instead he trotted out the same advice that is being ignored by so many people. However, he did promise that the "sterner measures" would be brought in soon if people continued to ignore the Government's advice.

Time and again the PM has uttered the mantra that time is running out and that we all have to follow the advice of the Government; but yet again the Government chooses to do nothing about those who ignore the advice!

I believe that what the Government is telling us is true and that the advice that they are giving is sound; and I also believe that there is absolutely no point in issuing advice or setting rules of behaviour if they are ignored!

The Government must act or yet again it will be a case of "A day late and a dollar short."

NB
I apologise that the words of the journalist are not 100% accurate. I don't tape record these briefings, but I can assure the reader that the gist of the question and the Prime Minister's response is accurate.
 

peebee

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... Do not read or listen to anything more than the basic guidance or else you might convince yourself to jump off a tall building! That would be an unnecessary waste.
I was aiming this at @MyQul earlier in the thread, but I think it can apply to anyone. To get the advice from a different angle, try this snippet from the Andrew Marr Show
 

Chippy_Tea

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I have had a report from a long standing member about this thread and am locking it until the mods decide what action to take i have asked 3 times for it to stay on topic and warned that it would be closed if my request was ignored.
Please do not move this discussion into the coronavirus thread, i will post the mods decision as soon as its made.
 
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