Thinking about Russian Imperial Stout

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IainM

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I'm planning to put a RIS on once the IIPA comes out the fv, vaguely based on the The Kernal recipe in the Mikkeller book, but with coffee, lactose, added DME/grain to compensate for my brewhouse efficiency.

5.5kg Pale
0.705kg Munich I
0.705kg Brown
0.562kg Black
0.228kg Amber
1kg light DME
0.5kg brown sugar
0.25kg lactose
55g warrior (14.1%), 90 mins, for 81 IBU, maybe 50g would be ok
Good quality fresh coffee ��" will think about quantities later.
4 packets US-05
With 61% brewhouse, at 20L, should get OG of 1.100, FG 1.025, 9.8%, or there abouts.

I've not done anything like this, so does anyone have any thoughts? I'm hoping to have this one ready for Christmas next year.
 
I am not an expert but brewed a few strong beers recently. Highest FG was 1020 which is quite sweet. I would imagine 4 packs of US05 is too much and will ferment most of the sugars out even if you have lactose in it. Is brown malt neccessary along with the black malt? You could always try cold steeping the roasted malts for a smoother flavour. I do that with a lot of my Stouts as you can up the percentage and still get a smooth taste.
 
Two things I'd make sure of when brewing high gravity are aeration and an adequate starter.
I've got an air pump and a sterile air filter and use that for 30 minutes on any high gravity beers. Some high gravity beers benefit from a second aeration after the initial few hours after pitching.
At the very least give it a good thrashing with a paddle, preferably one shoved into a drill!


Regarding the starter, look into stepping it up a bit, the yeast will need a lot of help getting through all that sugar. Also check your water profile to make sure you have the right level of minerals and use some yeast nutrient in the last few minutes of the boil.

*Edit* just saw you're using dried yeast, so skip this bit! Except maybe buy 6 packs and keep a few as backup in case you get a stuck fermentation.


Lastly, I imagine your fg will be a fair bit higher than 1.025 maybe more like 1.035+.
 
I see your recipe calls for DME, I would get some extra as backup, just in case you don't hit your numbers. Big grain bills can be a bit of struggle to extract all the sugars.

It may be an idea to add the brown sugar late in fermentation also, so that the yeast tackles the more complex sugars first.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for all the comments. Plenty to think about. I'll be upping my game with this one, with multiple drill-aeration, water adjustments, and staggered sugar feeding.

I am not an expert but brewed a few strong beers recently. Highest FG was 1020 which is quite sweet. I would imagine 4 packs of US05 is too much and will ferment most of the sugars out even if you have lactose in it. Is brown malt neccessary along with the black malt? You could always try cold steeping the roasted malts for a smoother flavour. I do that with a lot of my Stouts as you can up the percentage and still get a smooth taste.

Cheers, I'm basing the number of packets on the Brewer's Friend pitch rate calculator, and basing the FG on their recipe builder which thinks 81% attenuation is reasonable. I'm erring on the side of caution, and wouldn't want to stress the yeast towards the end. Using both black and brown malt came from the The Kernel recipe. I've never used black malt before, but I assume that using both would give more complexity than one or the other. I haven't cold steeped before either, so I'll definitely look into that.

Two things I'd make sure of when brewing high gravity are aeration and an adequate starter.
I've got an air pump and a sterile air filter and use that for 30 minutes on any high gravity beers. Some high gravity beers benefit from a second aeration after the initial few hours after pitching.
At the very least give it a good thrashing with a paddle, preferably one shoved into a drill!


Regarding the starter, look into stepping it up a bit, the yeast will need a lot of help getting through all that sugar. Also check your water profile to make sure you have the right level of minerals and use some yeast nutrient in the last few minutes of the boil.

*Edit* just saw you're using dried yeast, so skip this bit! Except maybe buy 6 packs and keep a few as backup in case you get a stuck fermentation.


Lastly, I imagine your fg will be a fair bit higher than 1.025 maybe more like 1.035+.

I was thinking about doing a starter, but I only have a 2L Erlenmeyer so probably won't be able to build up one that is big enough, hence the packets. That said, I'll be spending £9 on yeast, perhaps I should just get a liquid yeast and do an initial 2L step in a flask, then do a 4L one without stir bar. Now I just need to think about what yeast would work.

For aeration, I'll be sure to beat the hell out of it. Reminds me, I need to get a new charger for my drill! Never heard of a second aeration, but I should be back home 12h after pitching so I'll give that a try. I was going to use my tap water mostly, as it has high Ca levels, but Mg is only ~7.5mg/L, and sulphate 20-50mg/L, so I should probably take my first foray into water adjustment with an Epsom salt addition. What makes you think I'll end up with a higher FG? I've done a couple of dark beers recently that have finished lower than expected (Dogma 1.072 -> 1.012, Mild 1.036-1.008 despite mashing high), so if anything I was concerned about finishing too low, hence the lactose. I guess I could always leave the lactose out and if I finish too low just boil it up and add it after fermentation.

I see your recipe calls for DME, I would get some extra as backup, just in case you don't hit your numbers. Big grain bills can be a bit of struggle to extract all the sugars.

It may be an idea to add the brown sugar late in fermentation also, so that the yeast tackles the more complex sugars first.
Thanks. I'll definitely have some additional DME just in case. The last couple of big-ish beers I've done have has inefficient mashes. In fact, this is the reason I'm adding DME at all! I've lowered my brewhouse efficiency accordingly so hopefully I'll be on target for this one. I hadn't though about staggering the brown sugar, but it makes sense and I'll do it.
 
Cheers, I'm basing the number of packets on the Brewer's Friend pitch rate calculator, and basing the FG on their recipe builder which thinks 81% attenuation is reasonable. I'm erring on the side of caution, and wouldn't want to stress the yeast towards the end. Using both black and brown malt came from the The Kernel recipe. I've never used black malt before, but I assume that using both would give more complexity than one or the other. I haven't cold steeped before either, so I'll definitely look into that.
This calculator suggests a single 2l starter would be sufficient if you have a stir plate: http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php I set the yeast production rate to a month old and it still came out as a 2l starter.
 
This calculator suggests a single 2l starter would be sufficient if you have a stir plate: http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php I set the yeast production rate to a month old and it still came out as a 2l starter.

Interesting, though I think for high gravity 1 million cells per ml per Plato is recommended rather than 0.75. Still, I could achieve that with two 1.8L starters. Hmmmm.. I think I might go for Wyeast 1028, others seem to have success with it for this style.
 
I would defo reccomend going for a liquid yeast as the sheer variety, not only of flavours but also attenuation is huge, so you can really tailor this part of the brew.

As for the FG you have brown, amber and black malts and brown sugar that don't ferment out 100% and lactose doesn't ferment out at all so I would expect the FG to be pretty high...
 
OK, I've got this on right now.
5.5kg Pale
0.705kg Munich I
0.705kg Brown
0.562kg Black
0.228kg Amber
23L strike water @71C with grain @9C, hit my target of 64C, dropped to 63C during the mash. Sparged with 11L@80C and got 28L into the boil. Just added 1.6g Epsom salts to get the Mg and sulphates up, otherwise my water profile it good for the style. It is now approaching the boil. Will add the 1kg DME for the last 30 mins, and the lactose for the last 15. Hopefully adding them later will help the hop utilisation (55g Warrior, 14.1%AA). I'll also add some EKG towards the end. Now I'm heating up some water for a second sparge to put a partial mash on.

I've gotta say, I'm not too impressed with Geterbrewed. I wanted to order 1kg extra-light DME, but they only had one in stock so ordered 500g each of light and extra-light, but they sent me 1kg light. Plus, they forgot to add the yeast (Wyeast Irish Ale), which was annoying because I haven't been able to make a starter. I sent them an email and they said they would dispatch 4xUS-05 yesterday for delivery today, but I haven't heard anything from them or the delivery company yet. I'm undecided as to whether I should go to Wilko, possibly missing a delivery, or put my faith in them. The latter hasn't served me well yet.

EDIT: Geterbrewed just got back to me saying that they did dispatch first class yesterday. Hopefully it'll get here on time for pitching!
 
1kg light DME has been added to the RIS. For the second sparge running I got 13L @1.018, so I've added 360g DME and 50g dextrose to that, to get to around 4.1% once boiled down to 9L in the stock pot. Will add 7g Zeus (16.6%AA) for 60mins in that one for about 36IBUs, and probably do Chinook at flameout and as a dry hop. Either that or Simcoe, I haven't decided. Either way, it looks like the second brew will be an American stout.
 
So, the smaller partial mash finished how I wanted. 9L into two 5L containters, 1.042, trial jar tastes good. Did 8g Chinook at 10 mins and again at flameout. Will dry hop it too. Something went wrong with the RIS though, as I ended up with 26L in the fv, so overshot by 30%! OG was 1.068, far lower than I wanted, so I hit efficiency target but massively overshot the volume. Oh well, I guess it will be a Bitter Foreign Extra stout, or an American stout instead.
 
Ah ha! I've figured out what went wrong with the RIS. At first I was sure that I must have read the quantity going into the boil wrong, but then I remembered that I added the DME and lactose to the boil and didn't account for the volume increase due to that. Using the estimate of 1 + 1/3 L/lb in this thread, the 1kg of DME would have added almost three liters to my volume! Add the lactose and the fact that the boil off rate was lower due to it being very cold, I can account for the fact that I was 30% over in the final volume into the fv. A silly mistake, but now I know that I can't just chuck a load of DME in and expect it to have a negligible effect on the volume.

EDIT: I got the calc wrong, DME actually adds closer to 0.6 liters. Hmmm...
 

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