Ups got it wrong, wonder what will happen? (2)

Discussion in 'General Beer Brewing Discussion' started by ericmark, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Dec 6, 2017 #1

    ericmark

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    Not living at home, so today it was mad dash home to start a beer off for the new year. Single can kit so it was just pour sugar and can into fermenter top up to 40 pints bang it into freezer with an 8 watt bulb to heat if required.

    In the main the brews end up at around 18 deg C but little low or little high no problem the STC-1000 will either switch on bulb or run freezer and temperature is soon corrected.

    However as I carried the brew to garage I swirled it about and the temperature probe was recording 10.5 deg C, no time to play with different heaters I had to just shut the freezer door and leave.

    I reckon on 30 hours to warm up, before the yeast starts to work, so not a clue if the yeast will work before any wild yeasts take over, it was after all just tap water.
     
  2. Dec 7, 2017 #2

    Chippy_Tea

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    Bump.

    .........
     
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  3. Dec 7, 2017 #3

    Ajhutch

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    I got a bit lost on the other thread so read the OP again. I'd be surprised if there's much in your water that would overtake your yeast, the air would be different but that's not an issue from your description. If your tap water is a concern generally then you may want to use bottled.

    You might find the yeast start slowly if they had been chilled so maybe a quick swirl and see if you get activity.


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  4. Dec 7, 2017 #4

    terrym

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    My tap water is currently about 15-16*C (it was about 19*C in the middle of summer). I live in SE England. If wort at 10.5*C and allowing for some boiling water in there to get the LME mobile, suggests to me tap water at about 7-8*Cish. Not sure where ericmark is located but this sounds too low. So if that's correct the 10.5*C is a spurious reading and/or the temperature probe is misreading, or the temperature probe is measuring FV wall and not actual wort temperature, something OP doesn't explain.
    That aside I'm sure brew will be fine, assuming temperature readings used to control brew are accurate.
     
  5. Dec 7, 2017 #5

    ericmark

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    I can only cross fingers, my mother has Alzheimer's and I am forced to live with her, the brewing fridge/freezer is at home, so I had a window of opportunity while she was in day care to get a brew started.

    In my hurry I did not check temperature as filling the fermenter, last time I did one it was Summer and I had got use to using as little hot water as I could, it was not until I came to put the sensor on the side of the fermenter I saw how cold, had I had enough time I would have swapped heaters I use a 18W underfloor demo tile in fridge, but it was time to go, so just left with 8W CFL bulb, I know that can maintain the temperature, but until I got home and used an on line calculator I had not realised it would take 30 hours to heat up, I did once try to lager a kit beer, it was a total failure, I got the lager yeast but forgot I was using tap water, so before the correct yeast got going some other yeast got hold, so not worried about 5 or 6 hours to reach temperature, but 30 is stretching it a bit.

    I suppose once the yeast kicks in it will heat up anyway, I aim for 19.5 deg C for first few days, and I know even in winter the freezer motor often kicks in at start, wish I had the energy meter connected so I would know.

    So thanks to all who answered it is nice to know likely no problem, had I been home I would have at least changed the bulb for a larger one.
     
  6. Dec 7, 2017 #6

    Pavros

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    I don't use any temperature control as I don't have a brew fridge. The last kit I made was over a week ago and the temperature at pitching was about 20C. I put the fv in a builder's trug insulated with a thick beach towel wrapped between the trug and fv. At night time, after the heating is off in the house, I am sure that the temperature drops dramatically. My last brew took about 30 hours before any krausen appeared and has dropped from 1.056 to 1.015 in 10 days. It seems to be ok so I'm sure yours will be.
     
  7. Dec 7, 2017 #7

    connor7932

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    that ask,s another question,How many home brewers
    to do this
     
  8. Dec 7, 2017 #8

    BarnBrian

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    That depends on if you're making "Light Ale"!!
     
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  9. Dec 7, 2017 #9

    Slid

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    As it warmed up for a period today / yesterday, I would guess that you will be fine with the warm-up period and the amount of yeast you pitched, by cell count, will swamp almost anything and everything, which is why brewing started in the first instance.
     
  10. Dec 7, 2017 #10

    Dutto

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    I will say again - "Worry ye not!"

    As the OP mentioned Wild Yeasts, maybe I should have posted the following to point out why:

    Wild yeasts.

    "Any organism that has not intentionally been introduced to a beer by the brewer is considered a spoilage organism. Thus, the principal form of wild yeast contamination in beer is from rogue strains of Saccharomyces cerevisiae. These spoil beer through ester or phenolic off-flavor production (POF), formation of haze or sediment, or superattenuation, leading to overcarbonation and diminished body. In Saccharomyces and other yeasts, POF is caused by decarboxylation of p-coumaric acid and ferulic acid to 4-vinylphenol and 4-vinylguaiacol, respectively, a property engendered by the POF1 gene. These compounds give beer an unusual medicinal or spicy clove aroma and are atypical for most beers, though they are considered a marker trait of German wheat beers and some Belgian ales, as the yeasts used in these beers are POF positive.

    Brettanomyces yeasts (teleomorph Dekkera), including Brettanomyces bruxellensis, Brettanomyces custersii, and Brettanomyces anomalus, are nefarious contaminants of most beers and other alcoholic beverages, though their presence is often encouraged in other types of beer. These yeasts spoil beer through the production of the highly volatile phenolic compounds 4-ethylguaiacol and 4-ethylphenol, lending the aroma of bandages, sweat, and smoke. A number of other metabolites, including copious acetate production in the presence of oxygen, result in a wide range of off-flavors produced by these yeasts. In spite of its reputation, Brettanomyces is a desired component of certain beers, particularly Belgian lambic and fruit beers, in which its beta-glycosidase activity enhances fruit aroma. In a bygone age, Brettanomyces character was even considered an indispensable element of proper English stock beers, and it was first described for English beer, giving this yeast its name.

    A large number of other non-Saccharomyces yeasts are capable of growth in beer, but their spoilage potential is limited under optimal storage conditions, due to the combined factors of oxygen limitation, ethanol toxicity, and competition with Saccharomyces. These include Pichia anomala, Pichia fermentans, Pichia membranifaciens, Pichia guilliermondii, Candida tropicalis, Candida boidinii, Candida sake, and Candida parapsilosis; Candida guilliermondii, Candida glabrata, Candida valida, Saccharomyces unisporus, Torulaspora delbrueckii, and Issatchenkia orientalis; and Kluyveromyces marxianus, Debaryomyces hansenii, Zygosaccharomyces bailii, Zygosaccharomyces bisporus, Schizosaccharomyces pombe, and Kloeckera apiculata. Most of these yeasts spoil beer through the production of off-flavors (especially organic acids and POF), haze, sediment, or surface films. Like AAB, these yeasts are common throughout breweries, especially in unwashed sampling ports and on other surfaces contacting beer. They are opportunistic contaminants, causing spoilage when conditions are favorable, but are generally not an issue in modern brewing practices, due to improved oxygen control. These yeasts are more of an issue in barrel-fermented beers, where oxygen ingress stimulates their growth, hence the need to limit the headspace during barrel maturation."


    As it is - I reiterate "Worry ye not." It should all come good in a few days! :thumb:
     
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  11. Dec 7, 2017 #11

    Dutto

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    BTW Sorry to hear about your Mum.

    It ain't easy so you have my sympathies! :thumb:
     
  12. Dec 8, 2017 #12

    ericmark

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    Like Pavros to start with I did not use a brew fridge, all I had was a stick on strip which gives temperature in two degree interments, and it would in the kitchen hover between 17ËšC and 19ËšC and would start to ferment well, however it would then slow down and nearly stop, so I had to cover the fermentor once it had been going a few days to keep it warm enough.
    I was not always quick enough putting the body warmer on, and I had an under floor demo heating tile I would use to boost the temperature.
    When my fridge/freezer was condemned due to thermal insulation failure I decided to use it to brew with, I thought I knew the temperatures required however I soon realised why the as the brewing progressed why it seemed to need to be warmer, it was the stick on strip measures some where between ambient temperature and brew temperature, when I started using a sensor held onto the side of the fermentor under a sponge to insulated from ambient air I realised that stick on thermometer was reading low to start with so showing 18ËšC it was more like 19ËšC and correct near the end, so it was not that it needed more temperature to finish, but the strip was showing low to start with.
    I had only ever needed to add heat in the kitchen, but in the fridge it would shoot up in temperature as it started, so once garage over around 10ËšC I needed cooling, only for first day or too, but it was required. I found the fridge does not cool until the freezer has cooled, so to start with needs to go in the freezer.
    When I went to buy the controller the one I selected would control heating or cooling but not both together, so I had to buy a second one, this time a STC-1000 which does heating and cooling, so since two controllers and two insulated compartments, I am able to do two brews staggered, after 5 days in freezer it is moved to fridge as after 5 days only needs heat, also after 5 days the temperature can be a little higher around 24ËšC seems to work well.
    Once the error as to start temperature was corrected I found the brew turned out the same every time, so I could experiment knowing any changes were due to experiment not just the temperature varying.
    I was considering next stage and doing all grain, but mother stopped all that, however what I have is an automated system, so I can set it all going and leave. However I had forgot in the winter water out of tap is colder.
    So plan is tomorrow to lift the fermentor from freezer to fridge, and increase the temperature, next visit will then be Wednesday when I will decant into a clean fermentor to remove most of the sediment. If enough time will also start a second brew in the cleaned fermentor, I would like the brew ready for new year, if will be a bit green for Christmas, but I have at least 40 pints in stock already.
    So at the moment I am drinking beer over a year old, not only did I slow down brewing beer also slowed down drinking beer.
     
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  13. Dec 10, 2017 #13

    ericmark

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    Best laid plans went wrong, still not got home, now likely snow will stop me, so just cross fingers.
     
  14. Dec 10, 2017 #14

    Dutto

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    I find that it helps to cross everything else as well. :lol: :lol:
     
  15. Dec 13, 2017 #15

    ericmark

    ericmark

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    Finally got home, not good news, still only at 17.9°C it looks as if it has started however at that temperature clearly slow, now moved to fridge compartment with a 18W heater no cooling and I hope it will continue to brew, however in real terms lost a weeks brewing time so unlikely ready for Christmas.

    The bulb holder used in freezer will take two bulbs so it seems I need to double up on bulb size. At 16W should not be a problem.
     
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  16. Dec 13, 2017 #16

    Drunkula

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    Have you got a hydrometer? You could sanitise it and pop it in to see how far it's come along.
     
  17. Dec 16, 2017 #17

    ericmark

    ericmark

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    OK got home again, I think your right hydrometer check before I bottle, set at 22°C it was only at 21°C so seems it is struggling with temperature, set a second one off now, used 2 bulbs so 16W this time, the garage is integral, but with not heating, since not living there heating turned down anti-frost so around 12°C in the house, I think more heat than I thought has been getting from house to garage, likely garage has never been so cold for so long, the fridge/freezer was taken out of service because insulation damaged, so suppose only to be expected. I will inspect again on Wednesday.

    Tempted to bring whole fermenter home to bottle, leave for a day to settle of course, mothers house is warm enough.
     
  18. Dec 16, 2017 #18

    Dutto

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    Please don't rush! :nono:

    It's only been TEN days since you started and even under ideal conditions I don't look at my brew until after two weeks. :thumb:
     
  19. Dec 17, 2017 #19

    ericmark

    ericmark

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    You are right, not been long, I wanted to get a second brew going for the new year, it really does not matter now, both running so as long as bottled in time to drink I'm OK.

    When at home it was normally a 21 day cycle from start to bottling, and it would often stay in bottle for 6 months before drinking, however most of my stock is now gone, really want at least 7 days in bottle so bit late for Christmas, but I expect Christmas will deplete stock to zero.

    The slow start, well I assume slow start, so not ready to bottle until new year.
     
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