Using Flaked Maize (aka The Great Cornflake Debate)

[terrym]

I received a recipe for a now defunct beer kindly provided by @EddtheBrew, which called for 15% of flaked maize. I did a bit of research and found that the maximum recommended is normally 10%. I would like to convert the recipe to a partial mash extract brew but am not sure the about the quantity of pale malt required to provide the diastase needed to carry out the starch conversion. I have also read that cornflakes are a good substitute for flaked maize, and flaked maize itself can be bought in pet stores.
So to all you AG brewers out there, could you please provide some answers/comments to the following questions
1. How much 'standard' pale malt is needed for mashing with 100g flaked maize, noting there will be no other grain involved.
2. Is 15% flaked maize too much, should I be aiming for 10% max?
3. Has anyone used petfood flaked maize, and what about cornflakes, and what were the results?
Ta

 

[MyQul]

Q1. Dunno
Q2. Up to 1/3 of the grist can be FM for cream ales. Cant quite remember how much I've used in beers but it was at least 15% and more than likely more tan that. I just bought a box of cornflakes and used the lot
Q3. I've used cheapo ASDA cornflakes a few times in cream ales no problem

 

[Bigcol49]

Up to 1/3 of the grist can be FM for cream ales.

Hi!
What's your recipe for cream ale? Is it fermented at ale temperatures?

 

[IainM]

I'm putting on Greg Hughes ginger ale soon, and he uses 20% flaked maize in the grist. Ordered it online as Geterbrewed had it, its cheap as chips, and I don't want all the other stuff in corn flakes.

 

[MyQul]

Hi!
What's your recipe for cream ale? Is it fermented at ale temperatures?

Just base malt (golden promise) 5% table sugar and some corn flakes (a box, whatever size I can get. sometimes it's 500g, sometimes it's 750g). I've used notty and CML kolsch yeast. I've fermented both at ale temps and colder (around 15C ambient). Tbh it's probably best to take out the table sugar as the combination of the easy sugars (FM + table sugar) makes the yeast go absolutely bonkers and you end up with quite a bit of diacytl. Although this does condition out eventually

 

[MyQul]

I'm putting on Greg Hughes ginger ale soon, and he uses 20% flaked maize in the grist. Ordered it online as Geterbrewed had it, its cheap as chips, and I don't want all the other stuff in corn flakes.

If your happy eating it in cornflakes (and I'm not saying you necessarily are) then it's fine in beer, it doesnt seem to have any effect on the flavour. I've read a number of forum posts on other forums saying it would have an effect but I suspect these are from people who haven't actually tried it

 

[IainM]

If your happy eating it in cornflakes (and I'm not saying you necessarily are) then it's fine in beer, it doesnt seem to have any effect on the flavour. I've read a number of forum posts on other forums saying it would have an effect but I suspect these are from people who haven't actually tried it

I don't mind putting yoghurt in my corn flakes, but it doesn't mean I want it in my beer! :laugh:

Seriously though, I don't doubt you at all, but the cheap ASDA imitation cornflakes is £1.34 for 790g and the stuff from geterbrewed is £1.30 for 1000g, so its cheaper anyway.

 

[MyQul]

Your right. Its much cheaper as flaked maize if your going to put it into an order from a HBS. The same can be said of flaked barley. But if your like me and dont alway plan your brews to coincide with your HBS orders, things like cornflakes from ASDA and flaked barley from Holland & Barrett can be a godsend

 

[Gunge]

If your happy eating it in cornflakes (and I'm not saying you necessarily are) then it's fine in beer, it doesnt seem to have any effect on the flavour. I've read a number of forum posts on other forums saying it would have an effect but I suspect these are from people who haven't actually tried it

I've used 750g of Asda's smart price cornflakes in a batch and there ain't any damn difference between those and 'homebrew' ones. It's the same as these people who insist that flaked barley causes haze. They know that for sure cos they've read it somewhere so it must be right. Lol.

 

[EddtheBrew]

Hi All ,
I wouldn't recommend anything but an ingredient supplied by a brewing specialist ,and certainly not owt from a pet shop but that's just personal preference.
If you use cornflakes as a substitute, ensure that they're the UN SUGARED variety .
On the % of Flaked Maize in a grist make up , it varies from Brewery to brewery and region to region (to say nowt of the period it was from!!) , if a recipe calls for a seemingly high % , it's there for a reason , namely that the brewer and Brewery wanted it that road , and altering the % will , change the beers character and taste profile , this is important when re creating old recipies .
Hope that helps ,
Cheers
Edd

 

[Bigcol49]

the stuff from geterbrewed is £1.30 for 1000g

Hi!
That doesn't include delivery, of course.

 

[Bigcol49]

certainly not owt from a pet shop

The last beer I brewed was the dog's bo**ocks. :laugh2:

 

[Gunge]

Hi All ,
I wouldn't recommend anything but an ingredient supplied by a brewing specialist ,and certainly not owt from a pet shop but that's just personal preference.

Seeing as there's no discernible difference to the beer thus produced, how do we know that the homebrew suppliers aren't using repackaged el cheapo cornflakes and having a laugh at the gullible's expense?

 

[Honk]

I haven't used either but did some online research recently for flaked maize substitutes and popcorn seemed to be a more popular substitute than corn flakes.
I will probably get some flaked maize with my next grain order.

 

[ACBEV]

I have used both shop bought corn flakes and flaked maize from a brewing store, its the same stuff essentially. It does add something to the beer. I'm fond of brewing light ale, its not quite the same without. According to my calculations in brewing with both the conversion is identical and I can't taste any difference.

I have a few recipes that use flaked corn/maize and in my experience 5% to 15% is ok. However, Warminster Maltings recommend upto 10% in their malt specification information. I tend to use around 8-10%.

Here is my Light Ale recipe with 9% corn flakes. My dad says its just like Courage Light Ale from the 1960s, but who knows!

OG: 1.037
FG: 1.009
ABV: 3.6%
IBU: 20
EBC: 20
Mash: 67c

1000g Golden Promise 29.9%
700g Maris Otter 20.9%
800g Mild 23.9%
150g Crystal 100 4.5%
300g Flaked Corn 9%
50g De-Husked Caraf III 1.5%
300g Golden Syrup (added to boil) 9%
50g Honey (added to boil) 1.5%

15g Goldings 60 min
15g Goldings 30 min
15g Saaz 15 min

 

[Oneflewover]

I've used 750g of Asda's smart price cornflakes in a batch and there ain't any damn difference between those and 'homebrew' ones. It's the same as these people who insist that flaked barley causes haze. They know that for sure cos they've read it somewhere so it must be right. Lol.

I'm a flaked barley convert gunge, thanks to you! No issues with clarity, and definitely improved head retention and mouthfeel :thumb:

 

[Gunge]

I'm a flaked barley convert gunge, thanks to you! No issues with clarity, and definitely improved head retention and mouthfeel :thumb:

You're welcome! Anyway whilst we're squabbling about cornflakes / flaked maize, how come folk have no qualms about using breakfast oats instead of those from homebrew outlets? Because they are exactly the same thing... can't understand why the penny is still teetering on the edge re maize!

 

[strange-steve]

Most base malts will convert at least the same weight of adjunct. However some British malts can have a very low diastatic power, so unless you know what it is, I'd recommend a pale malt to flaked maize ratio of 2:1.

 

[MyQul]

Seeing as there's no discernible difference to the beer thus produced, how do we know that the homebrew suppliers aren't using repackaged el cheapo cornflakes and having a laugh at the gullible's expense?

Because from what I've read, their made differently. Cornflakes are made by reconstituting powdered corn/maize in to a flake whereas with flaked maize the corn kernal is sent through a roller to flatten it. Their both made from corn kernal but the process is different. I dont know but they may even be made from different types of corn.

 

[ACBEV]

The main difference is language. In modern times there is no difference in corn and maize. Historically in Britain corn was any crop with a kernel. Flaked maize and flaked corn are interchangeable and essentially identical.

Maize (/meɪz/ MAYZ; Zea mays subsp. mays, from Spanish: maíz after Taíno mahiz), also known as corn, is a cereal grain first domesticated by indigenous peoples in southern Mexico[1] about 10,000 years ago. The leafy stalk of the plant produces separate pollen and ovuliferousinflorescences or ears, which are fruits, yielding kernels or seeds.
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Also Kellogs do not make corn flakes from a powder, they crush the kernel in rollers. I've watched it on how its made.