The spiral bound version was designed so that you could open the book in any recipe, and it would stay open; presumably easier for reading while brewing. I've just got the normal version.
Victorian/ ole English bitter
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peebee
Out of Control
Having wasted plenty of time trudging through @EddtheBrew's work (it's the sort of thing I'm apt to do) I did come up with a "Victorian bitter" that might be suitable.
I think @Glyn1 has been "convinced" into believing an "old" British bitter is really a mid-20th century thing, not Victorian. All the same, the challenge was set and this 1889 recipe even calls itself "Bitter" (not Pale Ale) and isn't too strong. https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/09/morrell-co-bitter-1889.html?m=0. Edd does put in a bit of interpretation into the recipe's he unearths, but you do need to do a bit of work to convert them fully. He is specifying only Chavallier barley, rather than his trademark mix of barley malts, which keeps things simple (other "modern" barley malts could be used, but Chavallier heritage malt is easy to get hold of and really does make for a different finish). So this is my take on "Morrel & Co's (Oxford) 1889 Bitter".
OG1.053, FG1.010. IBU42, ABV5.25% Brewhouse efficiency 72% (slightly lower than normal, 75%, to allow for slight inefficiencies with malt). 23 litres.
5.50Kg Chavallier barley Pale Malt
75g Golding hops (AA 3.5%) 75 minutes
35g Golding hops (AA 3.5%) 20 minutes
20g Golding hops (AA 3.5%) 5 minutes
9g (6% of total) Golding hops (AA 3.5%) steep/whirlpool 25 minutes
The mash schedule follows the published recipe fairly closely. But unless you have a fairly efficient recirculation setup (e.g. HERMS or Grainfather and like) it's probably better to avoid the temperature steps and just do 2 hours at 65C. Chavallier barley malt does need a bit more conversion time than modern malt and some suggest a slightly lower temperature to favour beta amylase (counter its tendency to mash to a dextrin rich wort).
Moderately Gypsum treated water (GW's "Bitter" profile). About 2.9L per Kg of grain, strike about 71C.
20min (from strike) @ 64C
70min (including rise time) @ 66C
30min (including rise time) @ 68C
30min (including rise time) @ 70C
Runoff and sparge with water at 70-80C treated same as mash (but no alkaline salts and acidify to about pH5.5).
Bring to boil. Boil for 90 minutes adding hops at appropriate times and Irish Moss 15 minutes from end. Cool to 80C before adding steep hops, resting for 25 minutes, and cooling to ferment temperature of 17C. The hops have been given an Alpha Acid rating of only 3.5% because I do attempt to calculate the current AA content and these are 2017 hops (you should apply your own calculations to come up with about 42IBUs).
Pitch with yeast starter (Edd is suggesting WYeast 1187 "Ringwood"). Allow fermentation temperature to rise to 19-21C before cooling to 15-16C as ferment nears completion (about 3-4 days). Stand for a week. Cask (keg, whatever), prime (fine perhaps) and leave for a month cool (13-15C) before serving. Serve only lightly carbonated (2-3PSI, you might prefer 4-5PSI).
That's me sorted! Though I'll not be brewing it before May.
I think @Glyn1 has been "convinced" into believing an "old" British bitter is really a mid-20th century thing, not Victorian. All the same, the challenge was set and this 1889 recipe even calls itself "Bitter" (not Pale Ale) and isn't too strong. https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/09/morrell-co-bitter-1889.html?m=0. Edd does put in a bit of interpretation into the recipe's he unearths, but you do need to do a bit of work to convert them fully. He is specifying only Chavallier barley, rather than his trademark mix of barley malts, which keeps things simple (other "modern" barley malts could be used, but Chavallier heritage malt is easy to get hold of and really does make for a different finish). So this is my take on "Morrel & Co's (Oxford) 1889 Bitter".
OG1.053, FG1.010. IBU42, ABV5.25% Brewhouse efficiency 72% (slightly lower than normal, 75%, to allow for slight inefficiencies with malt). 23 litres.
5.50Kg Chavallier barley Pale Malt
75g Golding hops (AA 3.5%) 75 minutes
35g Golding hops (AA 3.5%) 20 minutes
20g Golding hops (AA 3.5%) 5 minutes
9g (6% of total) Golding hops (AA 3.5%) steep/whirlpool 25 minutes
The mash schedule follows the published recipe fairly closely. But unless you have a fairly efficient recirculation setup (e.g. HERMS or Grainfather and like) it's probably better to avoid the temperature steps and just do 2 hours at 65C. Chavallier barley malt does need a bit more conversion time than modern malt and some suggest a slightly lower temperature to favour beta amylase (counter its tendency to mash to a dextrin rich wort).
Moderately Gypsum treated water (GW's "Bitter" profile). About 2.9L per Kg of grain, strike about 71C.
20min (from strike) @ 64C
70min (including rise time) @ 66C
30min (including rise time) @ 68C
30min (including rise time) @ 70C
Runoff and sparge with water at 70-80C treated same as mash (but no alkaline salts and acidify to about pH5.5).
Bring to boil. Boil for 90 minutes adding hops at appropriate times and Irish Moss 15 minutes from end. Cool to 80C before adding steep hops, resting for 25 minutes, and cooling to ferment temperature of 17C. The hops have been given an Alpha Acid rating of only 3.5% because I do attempt to calculate the current AA content and these are 2017 hops (you should apply your own calculations to come up with about 42IBUs).
Pitch with yeast starter (Edd is suggesting WYeast 1187 "Ringwood"). Allow fermentation temperature to rise to 19-21C before cooling to 15-16C as ferment nears completion (about 3-4 days). Stand for a week. Cask (keg, whatever), prime (fine perhaps) and leave for a month cool (13-15C) before serving. Serve only lightly carbonated (2-3PSI, you might prefer 4-5PSI).
That's me sorted! Though I'll not be brewing it before May.
Zephyr259
Landlord.
I used Wheeler's bitter profile to base my own on. I was going to use his but didn't have Epsom salts so my sulfate is a bit lower at 175 mg/l vs 100 mg/l chloride.
Your recipe sounds very nice, lots of Goldings should turn out a tasty beer.
Your recipe sounds very nice, lots of Goldings should turn out a tasty beer.
What a fascinating resource Edd the Brew's blog turned out to be. Thanks to @jjsh for posting the link. Edd was kind enough to provide me with a Tennants (Sheffield, now defunct) Queens bitter recipe - from my student drinking days - some time back which I then tried but used cornflakes for the 15% flaked maize it required, which I realised I should not have done when I tasted the end product. I am now moved to give it another go using the correct ingredients.
Anyway I noticed whilst perusing Edd's many recipes one for Boddies bitter from 1958, so thought it might be one @Clint might be interested in, since I know he doesn't really get on with the stuff you now get in cans.
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/03/boddingtons-bitter-1958.html?m=0
Anyway I noticed whilst perusing Edd's many recipes one for Boddies bitter from 1958, so thought it might be one @Clint might be interested in, since I know he doesn't really get on with the stuff you now get in cans.
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2019/03/boddingtons-bitter-1958.html?m=0
You know what I might give that a bash...
Interesting the use of two yeast types. Also,is it adding ok invert sugars post boil for gravity?
Is there a simplified version/method as I don't have a flat cap, whippet and rollies to smoke over the boil...talking if which can this be cut to a one hour boil?
Interesting the use of two yeast types. Also,is it adding ok invert sugars post boil for gravity?
Is there a simplified version/method as I don't have a flat cap, whippet and rollies to smoke over the boil...talking if which can this be cut to a one hour boil?
peebee
Out of Control
It's not really meant to be a "hop forward" beer and will probably come out "malt forward" (which if you've ever tried Chavallier barley malt you'd agree that is what you want). However, 42IBU is top-end for a modern bitter of about 5% ABV.
All the same, I'd probably use 2018 Goldings (2019 should be about soon; Brook House do some very nice "Cobb Goldings") for the late addition and steep hops. With minor alterations to accommodate their higher alpha acid percentages if I'm feeling farty (I'm always "farty").
I notice my recipe builder (Beersmith) predicts a high-ish FG (1.014). Might need a cooler mash? Ah, stuff it. I tried 62,64,67,70 and the FG "prediction" went up!
PhilBrew
Landlord.
Hi Glyn
As an example … that Durden Park book that @An Ankoù referenced earlier in the thread has a recipe to make 1 gallon of a Bitter originally produced by Simonds Brewery (of Reading) back in 1880 … I put that into my software of choice (Graham Wheeler's Beer Engine) and scaled it to produce 23 lts so I could brew it myself, quite a while ago … that recipe goes ...
Pale Malt 5600 grams
Carapils 500 grams
Amber Malt 250 grams
East Kent Golding 5.7 % 90 mins 88 grams
East Kent Golding 5.7 % 5 mins 14 grams
Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.062
Final Gravity: 1.015
Alcohol Content: 6.1% ABV
Mash Efficiency: 75 %
Bitterness: 50 EBU
… out if interest, the Carapils and (modern) Amber Malt in that recipe (totalling around 12%, in the proportions Carapils 2:1 Amber) are there to emulate the (diastatic) Amber Malt they used back in the day, apparently … and it does seem to give an interesting "sweet but dry" flavour … anyways, since I had that all stored away in software, I could really easily scale that to fit into your 4-4.5% ABV range (by changing the OG to 1.046) remembering to scale the overall impression of the beer (to keep the Gravity Units to Bittering Units ratio the same) by reducing the bitterness in the same proportion as reduction in OG (to 37 EBU) … to give …
Pale Malt 4170 grams
Carapils 370 grams
Amber Malt 185 grams
East Kent Golding Whole 5.7 % 90 mins 57 grams
East Kent Golding Whole 5.7 % 5 mins 9 grams
Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.046
Final Gravity: 1.011
Alcohol Content: 4.5% ABV
Mash Efficiency: 75 %
Bitterness: 37 EBU
… don't be daunted, there's lot of help on here and videos on youtube that will help you work out how to use the software/websites … and it'll make life much easier for you in the end:hat:
Cheers, PhilB
… now that you have lots of answers in this thread, can I suggest you consider investing some time/money on some brewing software (whilst there are some free softwares/websites, you shouldn't underestimate the importance of spending some time really getting to know whichever one(s) you choose, how to use it and what it can do for you) … then you'll be able to get whatever recipe people offer up to you to the scale you want and using the ingredients you have/can get
As an example … that Durden Park book that @An Ankoù referenced earlier in the thread has a recipe to make 1 gallon of a Bitter originally produced by Simonds Brewery (of Reading) back in 1880 … I put that into my software of choice (Graham Wheeler's Beer Engine) and scaled it to produce 23 lts so I could brew it myself, quite a while ago … that recipe goes ...
Pale Malt 5600 grams
Carapils 500 grams
Amber Malt 250 grams
East Kent Golding 5.7 % 90 mins 88 grams
East Kent Golding 5.7 % 5 mins 14 grams
Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.062
Final Gravity: 1.015
Alcohol Content: 6.1% ABV
Mash Efficiency: 75 %
Bitterness: 50 EBU
… out if interest, the Carapils and (modern) Amber Malt in that recipe (totalling around 12%, in the proportions Carapils 2:1 Amber) are there to emulate the (diastatic) Amber Malt they used back in the day, apparently … and it does seem to give an interesting "sweet but dry" flavour
… anyways, since I had that all stored away in software, I could really easily scale that to fit into your 4-4.5% ABV range (by changing the OG to 1.046) remembering to scale the overall impression of the beer (to keep the Gravity Units to Bittering Units ratio the same) by reducing the bitterness in the same proportion as reduction in OG (to 37 EBU) … to give … Pale Malt 4170 grams
Carapils 370 grams
Amber Malt 185 grams
East Kent Golding Whole 5.7 % 90 mins 57 grams
East Kent Golding Whole 5.7 % 5 mins 9 grams
Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.046
Final Gravity: 1.011
Alcohol Content: 4.5% ABV
Mash Efficiency: 75 %
Bitterness: 37 EBU
… don't be daunted, there's lot of help on here and videos on youtube that will help you work out how to use the software/websites … and it'll make life much easier for you in the end
:hat:Cheers, PhilB
I'm almost 100% sure that the sugars are added to the copper. The gravity he gives for them (1.005 in the case of the corn sugar) is the gravity contribution they make to the total OG, you need that with the malt percentages to work out the amount of sugar to use.
peebee
Out of Control
Well I couldn't leave it like that! So I jiggled about with the mash schedule and came up with …
This is more like I'd treat Chavallier barley malt anyway. The FG in the recipe builder (Beersmith) now comes out 1.013. But Beersmith is a recipe builder, not a brewing simulator! A bit of "rousing" might see the FG lower and is specified in the historic recipe (or a bit more oxygenation at the start?). Getting 80-81% attenuation out of WYeast 1187 (documented at only 68-72% attenuation and never mind Chavallier malt too) is a bit of a big ask in any case.
The mash schedule follows a "Hochkurz" infusion mashing method. Just to show "nothing is new under the sun". "Hochkurz" has become more popular on the continent in place of traditional decoction mashing. Read about it here: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Infusion_Mashing
Please explain from the Boddies recipe...
The malt bill adds up to 100%,it then says to add copper sugar/invert syrup,at 14.5%,1005....what does this mean?
The malt bill adds up to 100%,it then says to add copper sugar/invert syrup,at 14.5%,1005....what does this mean?
So we a OG from the recipe, and your required volume you are brewing. The OG is malts + sugars. So, if the sugars contribute 1.005, the malts contribute OG -1.005. We ignore the priming sugars as they are post boil.
So it's 1038.5 - 1005 = 1033.5.
You can then work out the amounts of each malt you need as a % of 1033.5. In this case;
Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt 93 %
Weyermann Acidulated Malt 2.5 %
Flaked Maize 2 %
Wheat Malt 2.5 %
.. which I would then do in brewing software. I then add the sugar into the list of fermentables in a quantity to give an OG lift if 1.005.
It took me ages to get my head around it, to be honest, and someone might yet come along and tell me I'm wrong, but I hope that makes sense.
So it's 1038.5 - 1005 = 1033.5.
You can then work out the amounts of each malt you need as a % of 1033.5. In this case;
Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt 93 %
Weyermann Acidulated Malt 2.5 %
Flaked Maize 2 %
Wheat Malt 2.5 %
.. which I would then do in brewing software. I then add the sugar into the list of fermentables in a quantity to give an OG lift if 1.005.
It took me ages to get my head around it, to be honest, and someone might yet come along and tell me I'm wrong, but I hope that makes sense.
Sounds ok to me!
BeerGuy2020
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Hi jjsh,
Not quite, the worts gravity is, the OG ; Viz 1.038.5 , so mash for X litres of wort at that Gravity.
The Sugars serve a twofold purpose;
Extract and Wort Extension
Best Regards
Edd
protos
New Member
Have been massively lurking here for a while, my first post is a necropost, sorry.
I got me some ChevaLLier malt and wanna try it in this excellent recipe.
I plan to stick closely to the original recipe (2 hr boil), so calculated my hops slightly differently (Golding AA5.4% 6 IBU @105', 24 IBU @65', 12 IBU @25', steep 6% of total for 30').
What I am a bit confused about is aren't we missing one more hop addition?
What do you think the original recipe might mean by "RACKING HOPS: (Per 25 Litres of HOMEBREW racked down) Goldings 10 g"? Sort of dry hopping?
Last edited:
Yes, exactly that.
peebee
Out of Control
Hi @protos. I splintered a thread off this one >here<. If you haven't seen it it might offer some useful snippets? And I do appear to have missed out the "dry hops" in my batch of Morrel's 1889 Bitter; don't think it would have improved my assessment of the finished beer though (which was quite enthusiastic enough, though the Tetley's 1868 XK Bitter was equally as good, and I purposely missed out the dry hops in that one).
