Where to get large induction pots?

Discussion in 'General Home Brew Equipment Discussion' started by Rafaj Ondrej, Dec 14, 2019.

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  1. Dec 14, 2019 #1

    Rafaj Ondrej

    Rafaj Ondrej

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    Hey guys, would you please have any recommendations? I am looking for 3 at least 200l ones, 4 150l and a couple of 60l ones.

    Obviously the size can differ, need these to test prototypes of our new gas/electric controller.

    I could probably order from China but am scared of the shipping costs a bit.
     
  2. Dec 14, 2019 #2

    Mungri

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    Brewbuilder do them. Not seen a 150l size though.
    https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/mk2-high-end-brew-pot.html
    obviously they're not cheap at that size.
     
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  3. Dec 14, 2019 #3

    Rafaj Ondrej

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  4. Dec 15, 2019 #4

    An Ankoù

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    That's interesting, Mungri, I've got a 90ish litre pot like this sourced for me by Hop and Grape in Darlington many years ago (they're not the same company now) and they're quite heavyweight and substantial. By comparison, I find the SS Brewtech quite flimsy- though perfectly adequate once that lumpy overengineered tap is replaced. I don't think they're expensive at all at £172 for a 100 litre pot. It's not clear whether they'll drill and fit a tap. Mine came with the tap welded in place.
    Thanks Mungri, If I want another pot, that's where I'll go.
     
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  5. Dec 15, 2019 #5

    Druncan

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    Just curious. How are you planning to heat a 200l pot by induction?
     
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  6. Dec 15, 2019 #6

    foxbat

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    That's what I was thinking. You'd need to put in a hell of a lot of kilowatts and insulate the thing like crazy to stem the energy losses.
     
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  7. Dec 16, 2019 #7

    Rafaj Ondrej

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    Yeah, the losses will be significant but our Scottish farm has only 100amp connection for the whole place. I bought 3 x 5kw gas heaters that will be electronically (and individually) managed by the controller.

    Do you think I should invest in some kind of a boiler instead? I am a software engineer and design electronics and frankly don’t have experience with gas (all my systems till 3 months ago when we bought the farm were all electric) so all these thoughts and advice are massively appreciated!
     
  8. Dec 16, 2019 #8

    Richie_asg1

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    Gas is more efficient at heating for sure, but not as controllable. Can be done, just not easy.
    I would say steam if it was industrial, but again is more a hazard if it is small scale.
    How about indirect water heating? So you are basically controlling a domestic boiler and pumping the hot water through your system to heat it?
    Would be ok for mashing and very controllable, then pump or drop it into a pot on a gas ring for the boil.

    Hmmm - where can I find a large container that already has a water heating coil in it?,,possibly made of copper. :laugh8:

    Boiler doesn't have to be large either. Try looking at Eberspacher or Webasto water heaters for campervans and boats. They do diesel and gas versions, and the controllers allow pretty accurate temperature control if they work properly.
    .....Diesel.....Could be Red as it won't be in a vehicle.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  9. Dec 16, 2019 #9

    hedgerowpete

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    for the vessel you can buy stainless steel 220litre barrels and use them.

    for the heating i cant find it rightnow but theres a simple math formula that works our how many btu's or watts you need to heat that water.

    heating that is more of a commerical venture so three phase not been mentioned yet, a small diesel 3 phase genset could also be usefull else where and at other times on the farm.

    if its not 3 phase then its steam inside a tank jacket to do the heating and back flushed for the cooling too
     
  10. Dec 17, 2019 #10

    DCBC

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    I'm not sure gas is more efficient, are you sure about this? Gas is definitely less efficient than submerged elements because all the heat from the element is transferred to the wort/water, whereas gas always loses heat to the air before hitting the bottom of the vessel and and then licking around the edges.

    Electric Brewery do a write up about this on their website:at http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ventilation :

    "Unlike conventional gas burners where heat is applied from below, an immersed electric heating element is 100% efficient as all of the heat is transferred to the surrounding liquid. With a gas burner 50-80% of the heat bounces off the bottom of the kettle and is lost. More heat must therefore be produced."

    I'm not sure, and I have long wondered, if an electric induction hob is as efficient as a submerged element. I have a 3KW Bulldog and I have yet to try racing it against a 3KW kettle element!
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
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  11. Dec 17, 2019 #11

    foxbat

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    It depends on where in the supply chain you start to measure efficiency. Whilst you're correct for efficiency at the point of use, if you take into account the whole chain from extraction/generation to consumption then gas comes out ahead overall because it's much more efficient to produce and deliver despite the fact that as a consumer you use so much of it to heat the sky.

    I think in this scenario the only important question to ask is 'how much will it cost me in either gas or electricity to produce a brew'. For that I think he'd need to ask around some local microbreweries to see what they're doing.
     
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  12. Dec 17, 2019 #12

    Richie_asg1

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    Maybe now is a good time to ask what volume / week or per batch are you aiming for because the methods will change depending on that.

    Plus if it is to be in a dedicated brew shed or in the house. I wouldn't recommend open gas heating in a sealed building, and if large it would be kind of fixed.

    Plus if it was huge you may want to consider Eco-options of heating, like Dragon heat biomass boilers (burns round bales, and weed-cuts too), or waste oil burners, heat recovery etc.
     
  13. Dec 17, 2019 #13

    DCBC

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    All very true, it all comes down to your definition of efficiency. Gas could well be cheaper, although it certainly brings its own ventilation issues :)
     
  14. Dec 21, 2019 #14

    Drunkula

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    I ran a test with a 3kw kettle against 3kw on the induction and both brought a pint of water to the boil within seconds of each other. For the induction test I used a fairly thin stainless bowl so that it wouldn't have too much thermal inertia. The induction was the winner by a fraction.

    I'd already done some fannying about so the water was already in a pan so the same temperature for each. I put a lid over the stainless bowl to help and had to keep peeping.

    Yeah, induction's good. Even my standard wok works like a raging beast on it. I can get those nice charred bits on chow mein now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  15. Dec 21, 2019 #15

    kelper

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    Gas is cheap but not efficient. Electricity is very efficient but not cheap. Half the heat of a gas hob goes past the pan sides and is wasted. Electric heaters are 100% efficient unless you see the element glowing! Efficiency is what you get divided by what you pay!

    But I agree that gas is more cost effective for heating a building. Modern condensing boilers are quite efficient and the losses are compensated for by gas's cheapness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  16. Dec 21, 2019 #16

    Druncan

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    Nice when you clean an induction pot though. No element to hide nasty's.

    Post building conversion,,,, aheadbutt,,,,,,

    I have just had an idea to run my 50l pot on the buffalo and sparge liquor to my 100l BIAB Powell pot that has a 3kw immersion element at the moment.
    Planning to 70l batches. Any thoughts on this?

    This is the web with the heating calculations is here; https://processheatingservices.com/handy-heating-calculators/
    They do very interesting Vat heaters as well!

    (goes back to building plans and Aco gully drain specifications,,,,, :mad:)
     

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