Yeast not working

[AdeDunn]

Bit late now I know, but couple of tips I've found useful:-

Do a small starter, even with smack packs. It'll tell you id the yeast is viable, and get it into growth phase before you brew.

The other, keep some packets of dry yeast in the fridge. That way, if all else fails you can chuck a packet in and save your brew from the bad guy wilds. Might not be as awesome as it would have been with your liquid, but it'll still be decent beer, rather than drain cleaner.

Oh and my little additional tip, get some Omega Hothead Ale kveik, keep a stock in the fridge. It's versatile and practically guaranteed to work. At normal fermentation temps it's pretty neutral, and higher temps it's fruity. Win-win. Better than dry yeast IMHO... lol

 

[matt76]

Erm, yeah I might have forgotten to warm it up I read the back and don't remember that bit , bit embarrassing really.......
Only really used dry yeast before......
I'll go stand in the corner, pass the hat.....

Glad it's sorted now.

I've always used Wyeast, either new or harvested. I've had a similar experience once, but learned from it...

I think it was my AG#2 brew, I naively took a pack of yeast from the fridge in the shop. Subsequently I realised (having emptied the rubbish bin to find the packet!) it was almost 6 months old after it took about 36 hours to get started.

Now I always make sure I choose a fresh pack in the shop, plus I take a photo of the packet so I have a record of the expiry date. Also I tend to take it out the fridge and smack it the evening before or first thing on brew day

 

[Torshon]

Update, checked the brew and refractor gave fg of 1.016 so think it's finished, tasted it, OMG considering it's not even bottled it's delicious! Can't wait to get I to a few pints of it!
Thanks for the help guys

 

[matt76]

Hmm... What was the OG and how long has it been in the FV?

That sounds 2-4 points too high to me, plus is leave it minimum 2 weeks in the FV, maybe even 3.

 

[Torshon]

Hmm... What was the OG and how long has it been in the FV?

That sounds 2-4 points too high to me, plus is leave it minimum 2 weeks in the FV, maybe even 3.

Its been in the FV since last Friday, when the wyeast 1099,went in it was slow starting took 36 hours, I actually didn't do an OG reading as was rushing, the recipe is the jimsbeer kit says og was around 1041, I can't find my hydrometer so used my refractometer brix was 5% so converted to the FG I said.
Have had no movement since Wednesday

 

[matt76]

My inclination would be to use a calculator and compare the attenuation with the range on the wheat website (tricky if you don't know the OG for sure).

It's your beer and your call - I don't think you'll lose anything by leaving it another 7-10 days. But you might end up with a load of gushers if you bottle now (or it could be fine).

Some of the more experienced guys may wish to add their thoughts.

 

[matt76]

Oh, and if it's an all grain recipe what was your mash temperature?

 

[Torshon]

Oh, and if it's an all grain recipe what was your mash temperature?

67c for 1hr

 

[ChrisRedWills]

I don't think liquid yeast are all there cracked up to be cost at least twice as much as dried waste of money if you ask me they don't give anything extra to your beer as far as I'm concerned

 

[AdeDunn]

I don't think liquid yeast are all there cracked up to be cost at least twice as much as dried waste of money if you ask me they don't give anything extra to your beer as far as I'm concerned

lol Not used them have you? Kinda seems that way as you wouldn't be saying that else.

Some liquid yeasts are excellent, and with proper management steps, like overbuilding a starter etc, work out cheaper than dried.

 

[matt76]

67c for 1hr

Ok, so Wyeast say attenuation for 1099 is 68-72%

IF 1.016 really was your FG then, using Brewer's Friend ABV calculator, 68% attenuation would mean your OG was 1.051 - quite a bit higher than the 1.041 your kit suggests.

Let's work it the other way then - if you're OG was 1.041 then 68% attenuation would mean your FG should be at least 1.013.

Honestly dude, i would give it another week at least in the FV. Sure, all these numbers are just guides/averages and each case can be a bit different. But i honestly think you have more to lose by packaging now than if you wait just a little longer.

To illustrate, check out this post by @kelper on a similar subject today - in his graph (blue line) notice how fermentation is really quick at first but it takes a lot longer to get those last few gravity points.

But I'm happy to be corrected by the more experienced folks

 

[user 18729]

Some liquid yeasts are excellent, and with proper management steps, like overbuilding a starter etc, work out cheaper than dried.

Completely agree. Liquid yeasts, treated correctly, make a huge difference. There are some exceptions such as a hoppy pale ale, where you can get away with dried strains and the hops dominate everything, but even then I notice a big difference.

The big thing tends to be pitch rates. People end up underpitching because they smack the packet and then assume there’s enough cells in there for their wort. Most yeast manufacturers package to 100 billion cells (the cells become less viable over time so realistically you won’t be pitching this number). To put that in perspective, I recently made a chocolate stout and the temptation was to pitch the smack pack... after calculating the required number of cells I actually needed 360 billion based on the OG and size of the batch. So I did a two step starter to get enough yeast.

Cost wise, it’s not much more at all, and if you repitch a few times it works out very cheap. I’m about to use my Ringwood strain for a third time next week by repitch some of the slurry into the next beer. So that works out about £3 a batch.

I know I’m at risk of offending people with this last thought, but when I see someone’s recipe for a bitter and look at the grist/hops, I can’t help shaking my head when I get to the bottom and see they’re using a packet of Nottingham to ferment it.

 

[samale]

Completely agree. Liquid yeasts, treated correctly, make a huge difference. There are some exceptions such as a hoppy pale ale, where you can get away with dried strains and the hops dominate everything, but even then I notice a big difference.

The big thing tends to be pitch rates. People end up underpitching because they smack the packet and then assume there’s enough cells in there for their wort. Most yeast manufacturers package to 100 billion cells (the cells become less viable over time so realistically you won’t be pitching this number). To put that in perspective, I recently made a chocolate stout and the temptation was to pitch the smack pack... after calculating the required number of cells I actually needed 360 billion based on the OG and size of the batch. So I did a two step starter to get enough yeast.

Cost wise, it’s not much more at all, and if you repitch a few times it works out very cheap. I’m about to use my Ringwood strain for a third time next week by repitch some of the slurry into the next beer. So that works out about £3 a batch.

I know I’m at risk of offending people with this last thought, but when I see someone’s recipe for a bitter and look at the grist/hops, I can’t help shaking my head when I get to the bottom and see they’re using a packet of Nottingham to ferment it.

I wouldn't mind trying some liquid yeast to see the difference. Can you store the slurry like you do with a kviek. How long would they last in the fridge

 

[Rodcx500z]

Completely agree. Liquid yeasts, treated correctly, make a huge difference. There are some exceptions such as a hoppy pale ale, where you can get away with dried strains and the hops dominate everything, but even then I notice a big difference.

The big thing tends to be pitch rates. People end up underpitching because they smack the packet and then assume there’s enough cells in there for their wort. Most yeast manufacturers package to 100 billion cells (the cells become less viable over time so realistically you won’t be pitching this number). To put that in perspective, I recently made a chocolate stout and the temptation was to pitch the smack pack... after calculating the required number of cells I actually needed 360 billion based on the OG and size of the batch. So I did a two step starter to get enough yeast.

Cost wise, it’s not much more at all, and if you repitch a few times it works out very cheap. I’m about to use my Ringwood strain for a third time next week by repitch some of the slurry into the next beer. So that works out about £3 a batch.

I know I’m at risk of offending people with this last thought, but when I see someone’s recipe for a bitter and look at the grist/hops, I can’t help shaking my head when I get to the bottom and see they’re using a packet of Nottingham to ferment it.

Hi Hopsteep, I use gervin and us-05 mainly because I have no temp control at all other than a wort chiller, and being new to all grain I am still learning the ropes, I fully understand your comment and am not offended in any way at all, I am pitching at ambient 22-25c so my choices are very limited hopefully this situation will change over winter, I may be able to do some proper lagers over winter as my metal shed is freezing in winter, and I hope to get some temp control for next summer

 

[Slid]

I wouldn't mind trying some liquid yeast to see the difference. Can you store the slurry like you do with a kviek. How long would they last in the fridge

At least 3 months, but storing under the green beer they were fermenting in may make a difference, for the better. Tomorrow I am planning to re-use a Saison yeast that was first pitched on 7 April and anticipate no issues with fermentation.

 

[user 18729]

I wouldn't mind trying some liquid yeast to see the difference. Can you store the slurry like you do with a kviek. How long would they last in the fridge

You can store the slurry for up to a week, maybe two before you’d need to use it with a starter as the yeast cells will deteriorate quite quickly. If you’re brewing back to back it’s really easy to re use part of the yeast cake. Some people rinse the yeast but I personally don’t and just pitch a calculated amount of yeast/trub.

 

[samale]

You can store the slurry for up to a week, maybe two before you’d need to use it with a starter as the yeast cells will deteriorate quite quickly. If you’re brewing back to back it’s really easy to re use part of the yeast cake. Some people rinse the yeast but I personally don’t and just pitch a calculated amount of yeast/trub.

So would you plan your brews around reusing a liquid yeast 2 or 3 times. For that style of yeast

 

[user 18729]

So would you plan your brews around reusing a liquid yeast 2 or 3 times. For that style of yeast

You can re use up to about 6 times before the yeast may start to ‘drift’ genetically. I’ve not re used the same strain that many times but that’s because I usually brew different styles. Hopefully someone can offer a bit more insight here as I’m no expert

 

[user 18729]

Hi Hopsteep, I use gervin and us-05 mainly because I have no temp control at all other than a wort chiller, and being new to all grain I am still learning the ropes, I fully understand your comment and am not offended in any way at all, I am pitching at ambient 22-25c so my choices are very limited hopefully this situation will change over winter, I may be able to do some proper lagers over winter as my metal shed is freezing in winter, and I hope to get some temp control for next summer

Without temperature control you’re doing the right thing. Before I built a brew fridge I used to brew pale ales in the summer, and then when the ambient temperature dropped a bit I would brew darker beers.
Try a complex strain like wyeast 1187 or white labs WLP023 the next time you brew a bitter and you’ll see the difference.

If you find any of Westerham’s British Bulldog in the shops (I think I’ve found it in Morrisons before) give it a try. They’ve re-cultured a dual strain of yeast that was last used 50 years ago,and have purchased the rights to it. You can see why when you try it. Really complex.
https://westerhambrewery.co.uk/about-us/

https://westerhambrewery.co.uk/40th...ew-of-the-black-eagle-brewery-3rd-march-2005/

 

[Rodcx500z]

Without temperature control you’re doing the right thing. Before I built a brew fridge I used to brew pale ales in the summer, and then when the ambient temperature dropped a bit I would brew darker beers.
Try a complex strain like wyeast 1187 or white labs WLP023 the next time you brew a bitter and you’ll see the difference.

If you find any of Westerham’s British Bulldog in the shops (I think I’ve found it in Morrisons before) give it a try. They’ve re-cultured a dual strain of yeast that was last used 50 years ago,and have purchased the rights to it. You can see why when you try it. Really complex.
https://westerhambrewery.co.uk/about-us/

https://westerhambrewery.co.uk/40th...ew-of-the-black-eagle-brewery-3rd-march-2005/

Cheers Hopsteep, I will try a different yeast next time I brew thanks for the advice