Yeast not working

[matt76]

You can store the slurry for up to a week, maybe two before you’d need to use it with a starter as the yeast cells will deteriorate quite quickly. If you’re brewing back to back it’s really easy to re use part of the yeast cake. Some people rinse the yeast but I personally don’t and just pitch a calculated amount of yeast/trub.

Hmm... Not sure I agree with that. I think it'll keep for months in the fridge.

(@MyQul is the person to ask about this stuff - I'm pretty certain that to him, beer is just a by product or supporting act to the headline show of growing more yeast)

Once I've bottled I generally scoop a sample of yeast (sometimes mixed with grain and hop trub!) in a 50ml centrifuge tube and store it in the fridge.

I don't bother with washing it, but once it's settled out the layer of (essentially sterile) beer on top helps preserve it.

(I know some others freeze yeast with glycerine but I haven't tried that.)

Some (or all) of that yeast sample can then be used to build a starter months later. You can also build a starter (using step ups) from the yeast in the bottom of a bottle of your own or shop bought beer.

 

[matt76]

You can re use up to about 6 times before the yeast may start to ‘drift’ genetically. I’ve not re used the same strain that many times but that’s because I usually brew different styles. Hopefully someone can offer a bit more insight here as I’m no expert

This isn't really much of a limitation IMO...

Suppose you pitch a pack of Wyeast (or whatever)...

Once it's done you could easily collect 6 samples (or more) for building starters.

From each one of those you could do the same, 6x6 = 36

And then continue with subsequent generations 6x6x6 etc etc

My point is in practice you're not really that limited by 6 generations (or even 3 or 4)

 

[user 18729]

Hmm... Not sure I agree with that. I think it'll keep for months in the fridge.

It will, but if you work out the viability of it after a few weeks you may need to make another starter.

 

[MyQul]

Hmm... Not sure I agree with that. I think it'll keep for months in the fridge.

(@MyQul is the person to ask about this stuff - I'm pretty certain that to him, beer is just a by product or supporting act to the headline show of growing more yeast)

Once I've bottled I generally scoop a sample of yeast (sometimes mixed with grain and hop trub!) in a 50ml centrifuge tube and store it in the fridge.

I don't bother with washing it, but once it's settled out the layer of (essentially sterile) beer on top helps preserve it.

(I know some others freeze yeast with glycerine but I haven't tried that.)

Some (or all) of that yeast sample can then be used to build a starter months later. You can also build a starter (using step ups) from the yeast in the bottom of a bottle of your own or shop bought beer.

I agree with hopsteep. You can keep yeast in the fridge months, and I do, but you need to step it up in a starter after about two weeks.
One of my favourite yeast re-cycling methods, as it's so easy, is to harvest a jar of slurry and keep it in the fridge. I then just put a dessert spoonful of that slurry into a starter. In this way (depending on how often I brew) a jar of slurry can last weeks, even months in my fridge

 

[MyQul]

This isn't really much of a limitation IMO...

Suppose you pitch a pack of Wyeast (or whatever)...

Once it's done you could easily collect 6 samples (or more) for building starters.

From each one of those you could do the same, 6x6 = 36

And then continue with subsequent generations 6x6x6 etc etc

My point is in practice you're not really that limited by 6 generations (or even 3 or 4)

All true. Using my favoured method above you can get many many brews from one jar of slurry. When you get to the end of the jar. You can just harvest another jar of slurry from the brew from the last of the previous slurry and start all over again.

 

[An Ankoù]

It's worth remembering, too, that every bottle is a potential yeast starter. Just pour off the beer and grow the yeast deposit up to whatever volume you need.
This works particularly well with cloudy wheat been yeasts, which through a thick deposit when they finally settle.

 

[MyQul]

It's worth remembering, too, that every bottle is a potential yeast starter. Just pour off the beer and grow the yeast deposit up to whatever volume you need.
This works particularly well with cloudy wheat been yeasts, which through a thick deposit when they finally settle.

You can make a little 'starter bottle' if you batch prime and dont rack to a bottling bucket. When you get to the end of of your FV of beer. Give the trub a good stir and then fill the last bottle. You'll then have a bottle of beer with far more yeast in it than normal

 

[An Ankoù]

You can make a little 'starter bottle' if you batch prime and dont rack to a bottling bucket. When you get to the end of of your FV of beer. Give the trub a good stir and then fill the last bottle. You'll then have a bottle of beer with far more yeast in it than normal

It's the one I label "Mud" and it's invariably a PET.

 

[matt76]

I agree with hopsteep. You can keep yeast in the fridge months, and I do, but you need to step it up in a starter after about two weeks.
One of my favourite yeast re-cycling methods, as it's so easy, is to harvest a jar of slurry and keep it in the fridge. I then just put a dessert spoonful of that slurry into a starter. In this way (depending on how often I brew) a jar of slurry can last weeks, even months in my fridge

Ah, ok, yes, agreed - I was taking it as a given that one would use a starter but I suppose if the yeast is fresh enough you could skip that.

Interestingly, I'm currently reading "Simple Homebrewing" by Drew Beechum & Denny Conn - they have some very interesting things to say about starters...

There was a recent episode of Basic Brewing Radio recorded at Homebrewcon 2019 with a short interview of Denny Conn where he explains...

(it might be the July 4 2019 episode but I'd have to check)

He says yeast health is more important than cell count... Basically put, say, a 1L starter in a 2L container and shake the hell out of it (to aerate it), then add your yeast - the idea is next day it'll be pitchable, no messing with stir plates required.

I guess you must still need a reasonably number of healthy cells, such as a rehydrated pack of dry yeast or a fresh pack of Wyeast/White Labs...

Interesting though...

 

[MyQul]

Ah, ok, yes, agreed - I was taking it as a given that one would use a starter but I suppose if the yeast is fresh enough you could skip that.

Interestingly, I'm currently reading "Simple Homebrewing" by Drew Beechum & Denny Conn - they have some very interesting things to say about starters...

There was a recent episode of Basic Brewing Radio recorded at Homebrewcon 2019 with a short interview of Denny Conn where he explains...

(it might be the July 4 2019 episode but I'd have to check)

He says yeast health is more important than cell count... Basically put, say, a 1L starter in a 2L container and shake the hell out of it (to aerate it), then add your yeast - the idea is next day it'll be pitchable, no messing with stir plates required.

I guess you must still need a reasonably number of healthy cells, such as a rehydrated pack of dry yeast or a fresh pack of Wyeast/White Labs...

Interesting though...

I dont have a stir plate as if I tried to make one I'm sure I'd burn my whole block of flats down in a dodgy electrical fire. So I do what you detail. I put a 1L starter in a 5L DJ (a 2L container is definately not big enough) and shake it regularly

 

[Torshon]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll let you know how it tastes once its conditioned!

 

[Torshon]

Ok, so Wyeast say attenuation for 1099 is 68-72%

IF 1.016 really was your FG then, using Brewer's Friend ABV calculator, 68% attenuation would mean your OG was 1.051 - quite a bit higher than the 1.041 your kit suggests.

Let's work it the other way then - if you're OG was 1.041 then 68% attenuation would mean your FG should be at least 1.013.

Honestly dude, i would give it another week at least in the FV. Sure, all these numbers are just guides/averages and each case can be a bit different. But i honestly think you have more to lose by packaging now than if you wait just a little longer.

To illustrate, check out this post by @kelper on a similar subject today - in his graph (blue line) notice how fermentation is really quick at first but it takes a lot longer to get those last few gravity points.

But I'm happy to be corrected by the more experienced folks

Wow matt76 I don't go into that level of detail, I Checked the Gravity kept an I eye on the blow out and that pressure didn't move for 24hrs so nothing happening, I had a quick taste, and for me it tasted like harvey's which made me really excited, so I bottled 41 pints with table sugar as the primer
But like I said I'll let you know the final result. This brew was more about getting my water quality correct as I had a tangy quality for all my beers for the last 3 yrs but think it was lack of using Campden tablets

 

[the_quick]

@Torshon would you mind sharing your recipe please?

 

[Torshon]

Yep no problem it's a recipe from Granarian on this forum :

HARVEY'S SUSSEX BEST BITTER/BB

6 US Gallons = 5 Imperial Gallons = 22.7 Litres

FERMENTABLES:
88.1% = 7.75 lb = 3.5 kg, Maris Otter Pale Malt
6.8% = .6 lb = 272 g, Dark Crystal Malt (?90-115�L)
5.1% = .45 lb = 204 g, Flaked Maize (don't skip this essential adjunct, trust me)

MASH ? 152.6�F/67�C 60 minutes or until converted.

SPARGE ? 171�F/77�C, collect 7 US gal/5.8 Imperial gal pre-boil, to allow for evaporation

BOIL 60-90 minutes

HOPS:
.9 oz = 26 g, Progress, ?6.3% AA, 60 minutes
.9 oz = 26 g, Bramling Cross, ?6.5% AA, 30 minutes
.5 oz = 15 g, Fuggles, ?5% AA, at flame-out, steep until cooled
.5 oz = 15 g, Goldings, ?5% AA, at flame-out, steep until cooled

afterwards, STEEP all hops awhile before chilling, transfer to fermentor, aerate, then pitch.

YEAST:
Harvey's proprietary dual-strain, top-cropped and repitched for over 50 years, possibly available as BrewLab Sussex 1.

I used WYeast 1099

Campden tablet to dechlorinate
Changed the water to more like best bitter using the water calc on this forum

Water Treatment Calculator Page
my water is London South East so used crs plus other bits and added the extra for best bitter profile.

STATS: (assuming ?75% mash efficiency and 76% yeast attenuation)
OG: 1041
FG: 1010
ABV: 4.0%
IBU: 35
COLOUR: 9�SRM/18�EBC, light amber

So not mine I'm a plaegerist!

 

[the_quick]

Thanks Mate, possibly will do that as my next brew. This is always on pump at my local, so will be able to compare

 

[Torshon]

It's my favourite but no so accessible

 

[the_quick]

I might go to their brewery store, buy few bottle conditioned beers and get yeast that way :).
My mate done something similar with Dark Star beer.

 

[Torshon]

Good idea, I've had it bottled and have seen yeast in the bottom

 

[Torshon]

Final reply, had 2 weeks Conditioning and tried it with a bottle of Harvey's as a taste test, all good mine seems even maltier than the genuine, and definitely drinkable no tangy taste so cured that problem as well.
Thanks for all the advice, making APA Zombie Dust clone this Friday with new knowledge.........

 

[the_quick]

Thanks for the update, sounds like a very nice autumn drink :)