yeast starter longevity after cold crash

[Braufather]

Hi Everyone.

I am going to be away at Easter but was thinking of making a yeast starter before i go then cold crashing so its ready for when i come back. not sure what the pros and cons are? the yeast is already 3 months old so i thought id make a starter from it sooner rather than later, then cold crash and it would be ready for brew with in 2 or 3 weeks. the alternative is just to do it fresh when I get back, but by then the packet will be pushing 4 months old. any benefit building it up now? Or is just swings and roundabouts?

 

[foxbat]

I expect both methods would work. If it were me I'd probably leave the packet in the fridge and do the starter when I got back so it's nice and fresh when it goes into the wort.

 

[Alastair70]

It’ll be fine. I’m waking up a 5th generation WLP090 tomorrow that’s been in the fridge since 12th Jan, saving 150bn cells for the next time and using the rest for a Session IPA brew next Wednesday.

 

[Braufather]

After that long will you use another starter?

 

[Alastair70]

The bigger portion will sit for a week in the fridge on this occasion. I’m normal pitching within a couple of days so I might do a vitality starter this time, just the help it get going.
Some discussion on that here

Anyone tried using a vitality starter for their fermentations? I did this on a batch yesterday, a Belgian Dark Strong starting at 1080, and the yeast has taken off like a rocket; I had signs of active fermentation within 3 hours of pitching.

I read about it recently on the Brulosophy site.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/06/29/ye...e-cell-count-vs-vitality-exbeeriment-results/

Essentially, instead of the conventional yeast starter which you start days ahead of your brew day, with the vitality starter, on the day you brew you make up 500ml of DME starter wort, pitch your yeast of choice and sit it on your stir plate for about 4 hours and then pitch the whole lot into the wort when you're ready.

The idea is that whilst the starter wort is being continuously oxygenated on the stir plate, this allows the yeast to build up it's cell strength/vitality with all the stuff it needs to carry out the fermentation. Then, as the yeast has already utilised all the oxygen in the starter, you don't aerate your wort prior to pitching the yeast.

Apparently the technique was developed by Coors. I suppose it's perhaps a bit like pitching a regular starter at high krausen. I think this is quite a cool technique as, if you have an impromptu brew day, it lets you pitch 'active' fresh liquid yeast that day, rather than pitching fresh yeast straight out the vial/smack-pack or using dried yeast. It also purportedly lets you pitch with lower than the recommended healthy cell count that might ordinarily be require (at least that was the focus of the Brulosophy experiment).

Anyway, just thought I'd share. Will update with the results of the finished beer once it's done.

 

[Braufather]

Interesting. I hadn’t come across that. Would it produce enough cells though compared to a 24 hour starters or doesn’t that matter as the peak vitality more than compensates?

Maybe useful if you easily in range but if even with your traditional starter you have just about reached target ( often the case with me) it maybe not worth the risk?

I like the fact you only need 500 mills of wort. You could have a few of those ready in in freezer.

 

[Alastair70]

I don’t think it’ll produce many or even any cells. I assumed that the was aim is to give the healthiest yeast cells a head start and significantly reduce the lag period before fermentation starts. It’s the 5th run out for this batch of yeast and there’s going to be a 5 day lag between making the starter and pitching. So it seems like the right brew to try it out on.

 

[An Ankoù]

Hi Everyone.

I am going to be away at Easter but was thinking of making a yeast starter before i go then cold crashing so its ready for when i come back. not sure what the pros and cons are? the yeast is already 3 months old so i thought id make a starter from it sooner rather than later, then cold crash and it would be ready for brew with in 2 or 3 weeks. the alternative is just to do it fresh when I get back, but by then the packet will be pushing 4 months old. any benefit building it up now? Or is just swings and roundabouts?

Why not make up your starter and pitch it into a pretty simple, perhaps a stove top, brew. Then you'll have a half-ready beer to come home to and the yeast cake ready to go.
In fact I always pitch my newly awakened yeasts into a 12 litre trial brew before using it full scale. I can get away with smaller conical flasks that way.

 

[Braufather]

Why not make up your starter and pitch it into a pretty simple, perhaps a stove top, brew. Then you'll have a half-ready beer to come home to and the yeast cake ready to go.
In fact I always pitch my newly awakened yeasts into a 12 litre trial brew before using it full scale. I can get away with smaller conical flasks that way.

Nice idea but No time for that!

@Alastair70 Let us know how you get on with it!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

was thinking of making a yeast starter before i go then cold crashing so its ready for when i come back. not sure what the pros and cons are? the yeast is already 3 months old so i thought id make a starter from it sooner rather than later, then cold crash and it would be ready for brew with in 2 or 3 weeks. the alternative is just to do it fresh when I get back, but by then the packet will be pushing 4 months old. any benefit building it up now? Or is just swings and roundabouts?

It's not swings and roundabouts, you definitely want to leave it.

Imagine you had some lettuce, would you harvest it from the garden now and leave it in the fridge for a month, or would you leave it in the ground and only harvest it just before you wanted to eat it? Yeast is similar, you want as little time as possible between the starter and the brew.

Conversely, it doesn't really matter whether you make a starter with yeast that is 3 months or 4 months old - I've revived yeast that was nearly 5 years old although it needs some babying and I wouldn't recommend it as a standard process.

 

[Braufather]

@Northern_Brewer.
Cheers for that. Missed that reply somehow.