Ace electric boilers?

[Tony1951]

Quatermass is exactly what I thought myself, which is why I called it 'The Thing'. Best part is, it was moving like a jelly fish - it really looked alive. :) Good news is though that the beer was great. That was my first AG or near enough the first and I had no bag and what was in there was the entirety of the boil after I had strained out the grains (pre-boil) with a kitchen sieve. I even fermented directly in that pan. I reckon as long as you are clean, and as long as you use a tried and tested recipe, you are going to get 'beer' in this game - and usually it is at least as good as most of what is on offer down the pub, and frequently VERY much better.

It is surprising the way the break material settles down into a sort of off white creamy deposit as the fermentation progresses. I don't find any difference in quality of beer even when I have had a very big deposit. I got these when my ACE bazooka filter got entirely blocked and in despair I just upended the boiler complete with hop debris and trub into y FV and fermented it. I sometimes had about four centimetres of deposit at the bottom of the FV and when racked off carefully and bottled the beer was great. In fact I read an article a couple of weeks ago which was saying that 'kettle debris' assisted the fermentation - nutrients or something. If you are new to AG and have been doing kit brewing with concentrates, you may well be surprised by the different appearance of your wort at the start. Those kits have been processed in an industrial setting. Your kitchen processes are not like that. Mine certainly aren't. :)

EDIT:

I missed the question about efficiency -

I used to get about 70% to 75% using the bag, but with an hour long mash and using no bag and just mashing grains in the boiler I get 82% which resulted in my getting dangerous beer - slipped down a treat and was 7.7% and 7.8%. Gorgeous stuff but have a care...... :)

 

[donchiquon]

I reckon as long as you are clean, and as long as you use a tried and tested recipe, you are going to get 'beer' in this game - and usually it is at least as good as most of what is on offer down the pub, and frequently VERY much better.

Hope so - I'm really looking forward to seeing how this first attempt at AG (or was it BIAB?!) compares with all the kit tweaks that I've done to date.

I used to get about 70% to 75% using the bag, but with an hour long mash and using no bag and just mashing grains in the boiler I get 82% which resulted in my getting dangerous beer - slipped down a treat and was 7.7% and 7.8%. Gorgeous stuff but have a care...... :)

Okay - so sounds my bag results fit with your figures. I might try mashing and sparging with just the false bottom in next time, although I'm not sure how much more freely the grains would move about compared to the custom bag - it has a semi-rigid hoop at the top to match the boiler interior and fits perfectly. I was able to stir the grains without issue during each mash.

Just want to get started the next brewday now, but not sure management will be too happy about 2 in a week! :lol:

 

[Tony1951]

Hope so - I'm really looking forward to seeing how this first attempt at AG (or was it BIAB?!) compares with all the kit tweaks that I've done to date.



Okay - so sounds my bag results fit with your figures. I might try mashing and sparging with just the false bottom in next time, although I'm not sure how much more freely the grains would move about compared to the custom bag - it has a semi-rigid hoop at the top to match the boiler interior and fits perfectly. I was able to stir the grains without issue during each mash.

Just want to get started the next brewday now, but not sure management will be too happy about 2 in a week! :lol:

Because I changed two variables at teh same time (1. No bag, 2. different sparging technique) I can't really say whether the no bag is the cause of my better efficiency. Previously, after mashing with the bag in the boiler, I used to lift and drain the bag ( a total mess in my opinion) and then put the bag into a clean FV. I then used to pour my sparge water (about ten litres first sparge) over the grains and try and mix the grains with the new water, then I used to pour that back into the boiler on top of the first and strongest wort which was still in there. I then repeated another sparge with a bit less water and did the same.

I wouldn't mind betting that the sparge is the big deal here in my 82% efficiency result from the new technique. I am getting a totally fluidised grain bed by stirring the grains in the hot sparge water and letting it settle before running off.

 

[Flyerstarter]

After umming and ahhing for a while I purchased one of these converted ACE boilers, I got the one with a perfect fitting grain bag and bottom filer. Moving from small one gallon all grain brewing on the stove it works like a dream in comparison. I'm getting pretty good efficiency from this and the mash holds temperature very well over 90 minutes. Only criticism would be the inaccuracy of the temp controller.

What's the maximum volume people are getting in the fermenter on this? Suspect the full 30L is out of the question, 23L?

 

[Tony1951]

After umming and ahhing for a while I purchased one of these converted ACE boilers, I got the one with a perfect fitting grain bag and bottom filer. Moving from small one gallon all grain brewing on the stove it works like a dream in comparison. I'm getting pretty good efficiency from this and the mash holds temperature very well over 90 minutes. Only criticism would be the inaccuracy of the temp controller.

What's the maximum volume people are getting in the fermenter on this? Suspect the full 30L is out of the question, 23L?

Glad it worked well for you. I hope it keeps on doing its stuff.

I usually get about 22 or 23 litres of beer from mine.

If I fill mine above that full mark it would come over the top and it comes near to boiling over anyway, but mine is the 2500 watt version. Your new version is 1600 watts I think and it may be less likely to boil over. If you watch it carefully, you'll easily avoid that by a quick switch off.

 

[Richie_asg1]

All excellent info, and I'm interested in Tony's experience that by filtering less you ended up with a better quality result. What may work is to use a coarser mesh bazooka filter that basically would stop large bits from clogging the tap but otherwise let more out. It seems that by holding too much back is not beneficial at all.

For those with mechanical thermostats, By turning the dial you are just putting pressure on a spring plate that can flip overcentre. There is an adjustment screw on the back, but it may be easier to turn the whole unit in the mounting hole to match the number on the knob. These thermostats are rated at 10A but they can weld the contacts together sometimes - so watch out for that. I use one to control the cooling fan on the landrover.:)

I'm into the build of my boiler. Only 20L so may be a bit small but ok for a novice, and as it had a broken element it was cheap. If it doesn't work out I can still use it for hot water.

One thing that I thought about today was that some people were ending their sparge when the SG of the runnings fell below a certain level - indicating that there was little left in the grain. I thought a simple way to determine that point is to use a weighted float in a sightglass as a simple (calibrated) hydrometer. Thus when your float sinks - stop sparging. This would have to be calibrated for the temperature you are using.

 

[Tony1951]

All excellent info, and I'm interested in Tony's experience that by filtering less you ended up with a better quality result. What may work is to use a coarser mesh bazooka filter that basically would stop large bits from clogging the tap but otherwise let more out. It seems that by holding too much back is not beneficial at all.

For those with mechanical thermostats, By turning the dial you are just putting pressure on a spring plate that can flip overcentre. There is an adjustment screw on the back, but it may be easier to turn the whole unit in the mounting hole to match the number on the knob. These thermostats are rated at 10A but they can weld the contacts together sometimes - so watch out for that. I use one to control the cooling fan on the landrover.:)

I'm into the build of my boiler. Only 20L so may be a bit small but ok for a novice, and as it had a broken element it was cheap. If it doesn't work out I can still use it for hot water.

One thing that I thought about today was that some people were ending their sparge when the SG of the runnings fell below a certain level - indicating that there was little left in the grain. I thought a simple way to determine that point is to use a weighted float in a sightglass as a simple (calibrated) hydrometer. Thus when your float sinks - stop sparging. This would have to be calibrated for the temperature you are using.

I have a quick and dirty method of testing the sweetness of my sparge run off - I taste it. You can detect subtle changes in sweetness and when it is getting weak you know really quickly.

Thanks for the info on the thermostat. useful that.

 

[donchiquon]

Glad it worked well for you. I hope it keeps on doing its stuff.

I usually get about 22 or 23 litres of beer from mine.

If I fill mine above that full mark it would come over the top and it comes near to boiling over anyway, but mine is the 2500 watt version. Your new version is 1600 watts I think and it may be less likely to boil over. If you watch it carefully, you'll easily avoid that by a quick switch off.

I filled my 1600W version to a couple of inches below the full mark just to be safe but the rolling boil was well behaved and never foamed up. I'm tempted to try it higher next time....

I haven't callibrated mine yet - any idea whether the full mark is 30l or less?

 

[Tony1951]

I filled my 1600W version to a couple of inches below the full mark just to be safe but the rolling boil was well behaved and never foamed up. I'm tempted to try it higher next time....

I haven't callibrated mine yet - any idea whether the full mark is 30l or less?

Glad it worked nicely. I have no idea whether the full mark is 30 litres or a bit less. maybe the brim is 30 litres. I haven't measured it.

 

[donchiquon]

Glad it worked nicely. I have no idea whether the full mark is 30 litres or a bit less. maybe the brim is 30 litres. I haven't measured it.

I'll see if I can measure it later....would be interesting to know

 

[donchiquon]

Glad it worked nicely. I have no idea whether the full mark is 30 litres or a bit less. maybe the brim is 30 litres. I haven't measured it.

27 litres to the full mark!

 

[donchiquon]

27 litres to the full mark!

And the 28 litre mark....wonder if I dare boil to it! [emoji12]

 

[donchiquon]

....and once the boiler is drained down until the tap (stopping naturally) there is 800ml left in the bottom. When I tip it up gently I can get another 600ml out, leaving only 200ml.

If I had squeezed in all 28.5 litres of my last brews runnings I would have got away without an additional pan on the burner.

I think I should probably put away the hose and measuring jugs now and go do some work [emoji1]


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[Tony1951]

Thanks for that info. That is useful and I should have done it myself months ago. :)

Obviously when you are draining it after the boil there will be a bout one and a half or maybe two litres of semi solid matter in there such as hops and trub, depending on the recipe. So you would probably be unlikely to recover better than 25 litres if the fluid was at the full mark post boil. I tend to get about 22 and sometimes 23 into the FV.

 

[donchiquon]

Rats! I'd forgotten the sodden hops and the Quatermass jellyfish.

Managed to win a Buffalo 3000 on ebay this week for £50, so that will make running an additional boil to the side of the Ace a bit easier. At some point I might upgrade to a 50l kettle on the Buffalo, but I like the idea of the single pot solution for the time being!

 

[Tony1951]

Rats! I'd forgotten the sodden hops and the Quatermass jellyfish.

Managed to win a Buffalo 3000 on ebay this week for �£50, so that will make running an additional boil to the side of the Ace a bit easier. At some point I might upgrade to a 50l kettle on the Buffalo, but I like the idea of the single pot solution for the time being!

If I had another boiler I'd be using it for the sparge water. As it is now, for the last part of the mash, I am boiling kettles and emptying them into my 12 litre pot that I had before the boiler. I get myself 10 litres of hot water that way - ready for the sparge. The few litres of extra wort I have to boil on the stove is a small thing by comparison to the bother of getting my sparge water ready.

 

[donchiquon]

If I had another boiler I'd be using it for the sparge water. As it is now, for the last part of the mash, I am boiling kettles and emptying them into my 12 litre pot that I had before the boiler. I get myself 10 litres of hot water that way - ready for the sparge. The few litres of extra wort I have to boil on the stove is a small thing by comparison to the bother of getting my sparge water ready.

Agreed - that was my plan for the buffalo in the meantime. I'll use it to preheat the sparge water in my 8 litre stockpot. It will save me running up and downstairs with pots of hot water. There are a few buffalos going on eBay...maybe you could bag yourself an early Xmas present!

 

[donchiquon]

Thought I would etch on 23, 25, and 29 litre increments in preparation for the next brew day...

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[Tony1951]

Thought I would etch on 23, 25, and 29 litre increments in preparation for the next brew day...


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Nice......

I bet you are itching to fire that little monster up again and get another brew into your fermenter. :)

 

[donchiquon]

Nice......

I bet you are itching to fire that little monster up again and get another brew into your fermenter. :)

You have no idea. I'm averaging 3 batches a month this year and moving to AG has made it worse. I think I may have a problem. Need to find a Brewers Anonymous group [emoji1]

Did you ever enquire with Ace about the cost of the false bottom? It worked a treat with the boil, I'm wondering how well it would work with the mash...