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Old 01-11-2016, 07:00 PM   #11
strange-steve
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Originally Posted by Kronos View Post
Very informative, thank you Steve.
Thanks, hopefully it demystifies the subject a little.
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Old 16-11-2016, 09:28 AM   #12
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Possibly something worth mentioning with CRS/AMS, as well as reducing alkalinity it also increases chloride and sulphate which (from what little I know/understand) is something you may need to be aware of if you're aiming for a certain sulphate to chloride ratio (as recommended by Palmer and Kaminski).
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Old 16-11-2016, 10:13 AM   #13
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Possibly something worth mentioning with CRS/AMS, as well as reducing alkalinity it also increases chloride and sulphate which (from what little I know/understand) is something you may need to be aware of if you're aiming for a certain sulphate to chloride ratio (as recommended by Palmer and Kaminski).
You are of course correct. The reason I didn't include that is for the sake of simplicity. Aiming for specific sulphate:chloride ratio adds confusion to an already confusing subject which is why I didn't go into it. Using calcium chloride for malty beers and gypsum for hoppy beers will swing the balance the correct way anyhow and the use of CRS won't make a huge difference to it.

FWIW CRS has a sulphate:chloride ratio of around 0.7:1 and if anyone wants to delve a bit deeper into the subject of brewing water they should read Martin Brungard's excellent article HERE.
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Old 18-11-2016, 11:38 AM   #14
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After sorting out a fermentation fridge with temp control earlier this year and starting to reuse yeast, I'm thinking water treatment should be the next thing I look at.

Trouble is I keep reading up on it and I've tried playing around with Bru'n Water and I get totally bamboozled.

I think this excellent guide by strange-steve is the first one I might have understood, but before I get carried away I'd appreciate if someone could tell me if I'm on the right track.

I've picked out some figures from my Anglian Water report, for things I've seen mentioned in this and other guides as possibly relevant.
I can post the while thing if it'll help.

Hardness: Very Hard
Total hardness as Calcium 125 mg/l
Total hardness as Calcium carbonate: 312.5 mg/l

Alkalinity (As Calcium Carbonate: 182 mg/l
Calcium: 112 mg/l
Chloride: 72.4 mg/l
Chlorine (free): <0.1 mg/l
Chlorine (total): 0.52 mg/l
Fluoride: 0.27 mg/l
Iron: <10 μg/l
Magnesium: 7.98 mg/l
Nitrate: 18.4 mg/l
Nitrite: <0.051 mg/l
Potassium: 9.24 mg/l
Sodium: 43.7 mg/l
Sulphate: 108 mg/l

My water report says Alkalinity (As Calcium Carbonate) is 182 mg/l, is this the same measurement/scale as the guidelines given "For a pale beer <20ppm"? i.e. would I be aiming to reduce alkalinity by 160ppm or so to hit 20ppm for a pale beer?
So if I'm using 32L of water for a batch (BIAB so all the water goes in at the start) I'd be looking to add:
half a Campden tablet
27.84ml (round up to 28ml?) of CRS (according to the Brupaks site 0.87ml CRS per litre gives a reduction of 160ppm alkalinity so 32L x 0.87ml/L = 27.84ml)
My water report states 112 mg/L Calcium so that should be ok as it's higher than the 100ppm suggested, or I could be aiming nearer 150ppm for the hoppy beers I like, in which case 6.4g Gypsum would take me to 158ppm (32L x 0.2g/L)?
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Old 24-11-2016, 11:32 AM   #15
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Is there a kind soul who could check my understanding and numbers in the post above to see if I've got this? @strange-steve ?
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Old 24-11-2016, 01:38 PM   #16
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Is there a kind soul who could check my understanding and numbers in the post above to see if I've got this? @strange-steve ?
Apologies, I only just saw your post.

Ok so the relevant figures you've posted are:
182 ppm alkalinity (mg/l is the same as ppm)
112 ppm calcium
72 ppm chloride
108 ppm sulphate

Your water as standard is pretty good for a stout or porter but for pale ales then it would be beneficial to lower the alkalinity to around 20 ppm or so.

Your sums look correct, 28 ml of CRS and yes if you want to add some gypsum for your hoppy beers then go for it, 6.4 g will give you a high sulphate:chloride ratio which you want for a hoppy beer, though I probably wouldn't go much higher than that.

Another thing for you to bear in mind if you are brewing malty beers you should probably keep the calcium chloride additions pretty low, around 0.06g/L as a maximum. If the chloride and sulphate levels are both high then it can taste a little harsh and your sulphate is already quite high.
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Old 24-11-2016, 01:59 PM   #17
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Well done that man!

I had been working on a guide to publish but I think you nailed it here.

if you are keen it is easy enough to set up a spreadsheet that will calculate each of these for you using a box where you input the target and another to input your local reading and brewlength. I just copy what I used last time as my water is fairly repeatable with low alkalinity.
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Old 24-11-2016, 03:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strange-steve View Post
Apologies, I only just saw your post.

Ok so the relevant figures you've posted are:
182 ppm alkalinity (mg/l is the same as ppm)
112 ppm calcium
72 ppm chloride
108 ppm sulphate

Your water as standard is pretty good for a stout or porter but for pale ales then it would be beneficial to lower the alkalinity to around 20 ppm or so.

Your sums look correct, 28 ml of CRS and yes if you want to add some gypsum for your hoppy beers then go for it, 6.4 g will give you a high sulphate:chloride ratio which you want for a hoppy beer, though I probably wouldn't go much higher than that.

Another thing for you to bear in mind if you are brewing malty beers you should probably keep the calcium chloride additions pretty low, around 0.06g/L as a maximum. If the chloride and sulphate levels are both high then it can taste a little harsh and your sulphate is already quite high.
Awesome, thanks very much for taking the time to write the guide and check my numbers, as I said previously this is the first guide I've read that I've understood.
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:34 PM   #19
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good info - thanks for that - at the point of delving into this aspect of brewing for the next brew so nice to read
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:54 PM   #20
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So i am using Reverse Osmosis water i should have zero alkilinity am i right? I presume it should be fairly easy to adjust neutral water but still finding it hard. I have gypsum and epsom salts but so far all i have managed is to add 1g per 10l of gypsum for all my beers. Any help steering me in the right direction is much appreciated.
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