Beer gone sour (again) - should i ditch the FV?

Your thoughts please. I had a couple of batches go sour months ago and I realised that I used the same FV with both batches so din't use it again. I have had no beer go bad since.

Not wanting to throw away the suspect FV (as I was never 100% sure that was the cause), I bleached the thing.

I do BIAB and was having trouble transferring enough wort into my good FV's because of the hops clogging the syphon (no tap). So I came up with the idea of pouring the cooled wort through my grain bag into a bucket (the suspect fv) therefore straining out the hops and some break material. I then poured the wort back into my kettle where I whirlpooled and then syphoned to a good fv. All with the help of the mrs.

The batch has gone sour. I am pretty good with my sanitation, and can only think that the 10mins that my wort was in contact with the suspect FV that this is the cause.

Does this seem like a sensible conclusion? Does infected/bad beer ruin FV's, even after bleaching, forever? Will I have to now chuck away the FV that it is sitting in now? That means chucking away 2 fv's.

I think for the sake of £10-£15 for a new fv is probably worth it, but I'm interested to get the the bottom of the cause of this sour smelling and tasting beer. As I thought bleaching would have sorted it out.

Are there any scratches in it that could harbour nasties from the bleach?

When in doubt get rid, How much does a new FV cost you against the total cost of a lost batch? What type of FV is it, the standard bucket?

I threw away 2 barrels and all the fittings after a MLF infection. You can never be really sure you sanitise it all, if you miss one spot it starts again.

"I do BIAB and was having trouble transferring enough wort into my good FV's because of the hops clogging the syphon (no tap). So I came up with the idea of pouring the cooled wort through my grain bag into a bucket "

Just an idea, "cooled wort" and "through the grain bag" ... why do you remove your hops from a cooled wort ? Why don't you do this while the wort is still hot and infection free ?... fresh malt is full of lactic acid bacteria, mashing temperatures won't sterilize your bag and sanitizing anything made of cloth is very difficult. I wouldn't be surprised if your worries are coming from this step, the "cooled" wort going through a grain bag. Metal sieves are no better either. Why not just remove your hops with a slotted spoon, whilst it is hot ?

Just a few ideas, suggestions, hope it's useful.:hat:

I'm thinking along the lines of the previous post.

When I used to BIAB I always boiled the bag in a suacepan of water first as the easiest way of steralising it.

Good luck:

I had 3 brews in a row turn to vinegar after 7 days in the FV. I put it down to infection in the FV (the other one produced fine beer) despite my strong hygiene routine.

Replaced it with a new one, and re-purposed the suspect one as a mash tun (it's about 8 gallons so fitted elements false bottom).

No vinegar problems since.

thanks for the replies.

Suspect fv is the bin type with the large lid. It has no deep scratches or even medium scratches, I have never used an abrasive pad. It does have a ring/lip around the whole circumference about 2 inches from the bottom on the inside, must be a manufacturing thing. What gets me is that it's only 2 years old and very well looked after, the other two (which are the screw-on lid type) I have, I bought off some bloke on ebay which are obviously very well used and seem to be more scratched up than my bin one.

Interesting what you say about "fresh malt is full of lactic acid bacteria".

Since doing extract kits I've poured wort into fv's through a mesh bag. But they've always been nylon and not been in contact with grain. I would either boil them in a sauce pan or soak in sanitiser first. Always to filter the hops. The grain sack I used this time was only soaked not boiled.

This is the third sour batch I've done and the first since going biab. The other 2 being extract.

I suppose what I (and others I'm sure) would really like to do is know exactly where the infection has come from. Looks like it is either the fv or pouring wort through a mesh.

My hand too has come in contact with wort as well I syphon by filling the tube with water and my thumbs over the each end. I have to dip one end in the wort which means submerging my hand momentarily. But I've always done this!!

Maybe I'm too quick to blame the fv. And it's all just coincidence that I've had sour beer when using the suspect fv. It's very frustrating not knowing.

I will stop using the grain sack to filter hops, and as suggested I'll scoop them out while the wort is HOT. Just might take a while with a spoon chasing them around a 50L pot. But it makes total sense and eliminates one of the suspects so thanks for that Tean Buns.

So 2 questions:

1. Is my 'what was good' fv that now has sour beer in any good any more? Or should I bin it or can i bleach it?

2. To eliminate another suspect - What are auto syphons like to use? Are they easy to clean?

hi andy
i was getting the same problem as you are i talked to a brewer and he gave me a strong mix of caustic soda and told me to soak the vessel for a couple of days turning over half way through if possible then rinse well
since then i had no problems with wild yeast infections in the ale


good luck
steve

sledgehammer's reply seems good. I had a barrel that got a bug in it. 24 hours soaking with a cup of hydrochloric acid added, followed by another 24 hours with a strong bleach solution followed by a boiling water rinse sorted it out. :electric:

Auto siphon ... can't help you on that one, I just use the traditional clear tubing. I fill it up with water to get the siphon running but I have chugged on the end of the tube to get it running too ... no infections so far.

Would boiling my grain sack kill off the fresh grain lactic acid that "tean buns" mentions - I only soaked it in star san.

I really liked filtering the hops and break this way - it was so quick and i got the most amount of wort ever into the fv this way

boiling the grain sack would PROBABLY work ... but I wouldn't do it myself ... even a wooden spoon is to be banished from the brewery. I use a large stainless-steel steamer-tray for this job, slots right on top of the bucket, no problems. :hat:

On occasion when I've clogged up my tap with hops I use a large sieve, that I have soaked in sanitizer, to separate the wort from the hops. I have to do a couple of passes as the sieve fills up, but I've never had any issues with infections doing it this way.