Finings or Not

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Rocksaga

Rocksaga

Timeserved Grumpy Old Man
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
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Location
West Yorkshire
Hi,

Almost ready for transferring my second Festival Ale Kit to the pressure barrel and thinking of adding some finings. My first brew is still a little cloudy 5 weeks after barreling, although it tastes fine.

My dilemma is: if I add finings, and it does it's job & 'clots' the yeast, won't this have an adverse affect on carbonation with nothing left to covert the priming sugar to gas?

John
 
My quick but not gospel opinion is yes. I've just put a brew in a keg after using turbo clear. The first brew I put in a corny keg was just slightly cloudy but I ended up with sediment in the first couple of pints. The turbo clear has totally cleared the last brew which is perfect for me because I force carbonate but if you want a secondary fermentation to prime bottles I would say don't use finings because there will be no yeast left.
 
Finings don't kill off the yeast cells, they just clump them together so that they fall out of suspension in the FV.

Although the beer might look clear in the FV after finings have been introduced there should be enough yeast cells left to start a secondary fermentation in the keg or bottle ...

... which will cloud the beer anyway ...

... and which is the main reason why I very seldom use finings for beer.

I much prefer waiting for the beer to partially clear in the FV before syphoning it off into bottles or a keg.

After secondary fermentation I either wait for it to clear naturally of just drink it cloudy, depending on my thirst and what is available. :whistle:
 
personally i dont use finnings primarily as the thorough mixing in at the end of the primary fermentation increases the risk of unwanted airborne microlife gaining access And also increases the risk of disturbing the protective blanket of co2 above the beer and allowing o2 to gain access and oxidise the beer prematurely.

Saying that its a rare beer indeed that i will sup within 5 weeks of bottling or kegging, one beer a fuggles smash iirc was ready to quaff after 3 and a bit weeks in the keg and that was something to shout about this end.. tho the level of maturity you want in your beers flavour is all a matter of individual taste, but most beers will drop crystal clear in the bottle after a couple of months..

as your on your 2nd brew you have not had the chance to build up the stocks, but as long as you keep brewing every week or so it wont take long before the stocks are high and sitting on a batch a wee bit longer wont be a problem ;) by all means sample the beers, just save the sessions for when its reached a clear mature level ;)
 
Hi!
I've made two kits and a third is in the FV. Both of the brews that I've bottled are crystal clear without the use of finings. I transfer to secondary after about a week, when the first vigorous fermentation has subsided, then leave to condition at fermentation temperature for two weeks. After that I cold condition for two weeks before bottling.
Most kit instructions concentrate on getting beer into man in the shortest time - that's one of the reasons that many are attracted to home brewing in the first place. Your kit instructions may suggest fermenting for 14 days then transferring to a pressure barrel. You need to allow time for the yeast to finish cleaning up the beer then more time in the cold to settle out the sediment.
 
Fil said:
as your on your 2nd brew you have not had the chance to build up the stocks, but as long as you keep brewing every week or so it wont take long before the stocks are high and sitting on a batch a wee bit longer wont be a problem ;) by all means sample the beers, just save the sessions for when its reached a clear mature level ;)
Click to expand...

Fil, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I might have been a little premature posting last night. Tried a pint from barrel after posting and it was a lot clearer than previous taster. Patience is the key I think.

Thanks all for responses - I think it will be a not for the finings.
 
I use finings in all of my beers, first of all kettle finings e.g protafloc. Last year I started using auxillary finings which are added any time after fermentation, I usually add just after whilst starting to reduce temperature. The auxillary finings will bind proteins, not yeast, and sink them to the bottom. The yeast will settle naturally by gravity and with decreasing temperature.

I have really good temperature control using my fridge and after fermenting reducing as low as 3- 5°C I can get my beer clear in a week - 10 days. With auxillary finings this can be as little as 2-3 days, as with my latest beer.

My Slovenian IPA containing 200g of pellet hops looked hazy with floaters I added auxillary finings on Sunday and by yesterday PM the beer is clear as a bell, no haze no floaters. Tomorrow I will transfer to priming bucket and bottle, 13 days from start to bottling.

Each to their own but I prefer to get the job done quickly without waiting and on to the next one. The beer can then further condition in the bottle.
 
I only use Irish moss. I don't like adding those tablets and other **** to my beer.
I did a few batches without Irish moss and they were fine but not as clear as I would like. But you can really clear it up by cold crashing the FV then transfer to a second.
 
geetee said:
Each to their own but I prefer to get the job done quickly without waiting and on to the next one. The beer can then further condition in the bottle.
Click to expand...

I agree. If I had the luxury of lots of spare time I would probably let the yeast settle by itself but I'm limited to weekends and even then it's only about 2 weekends per month. I use whirlflock tablets in the boil and the weekend just gone I got a brew in a keg and wine bottled as well as a new wine kit started and an IPA into a FV.
Without finings added to an IPA in the FV on Friday it would never have cleared by Saturday and I would have missed the window and have to wait 3 more weeks to get it done.
First time I've used finings but it won't be the last.
 
Oh God! I can see what's going to happen but I can't hold myself back.

Auxillary finings should really only be used in conjunction with primary finings, ie something like isinglass (not copper finings like protafloc). Proteins carry a slight positive charge and the negative charge on auxiliary finings enables them to fine proteins but this is enhanced in conjunction with primary finings that hold a positive charge. The process is similar to the interaction of isinglass and yeast.

From: http://www.practicalbrewing.co.uk/main/fining/page4.html

Auxiliary finings are optional post-fermentation finings that are used in conjunction with isinglass finings to produce brilliant clarity in cask-conditioned beers, but they must not be added at the same time as isinglass. Auxiliary finings have a strong negative charge which attract positively-charged particles to it, swamping their positive charge and forcing them to have a net negative charge. The beer then contains only negatively-charged particles, thus when isinglass (which is positively charged) is added later, all the particles are attracted to it, which aggregate until they are heavy enough to drop out of suspension. This greatly enhances the performance of isinglass; not only is a brighter beer the result, but the quantity of isinglass required is usually less than half the normal dose. Auxiliary finings are not a necessity and are not often used in home brewing. There is probably little point in using auxiliary finings without the subsequent use of isinglass or similar types of finings because the auxiliary finings have the function of preparing or preconditioning the beer to improve the action of isinglass or similar.
Click to expand...

The advantages Of using auxiliary Finings are that it is faster fining than Isinglass alone, a brighter, more polished beer is produced and a smaller total volume of finings are needed. Also, improved shelf life for the beer. Auxillary finings should be added to the FV at cooling but not at the same time as isinglass.
 
The addition of auxillary finings with negative charges does indeed form a bond with proteins which are essentially positively charged. The increase in mass will in itself cause deposition of the heavier molecules thus reducing proteins and haze. Isinglass should not be added at the same time but is usually added later to help deposit the yeast in cask conditioned beer, not bottles. During the cask conditioning the yeast will settle out before serving and thus the isinglass is needed. For bottles auxillary finings alone can still be used and you still get the settlement of proteins and the yeast required for secondary fermentation then deposits in time.Addition of isinglass when for bottle conditioned beer would deposit most of the yeast and could affect carbonation.
 
In some cases commercial brewers will remove ALL yeast using finings (Isinglass) and then reculture with a second to carbonate in the casks. Use of isinglass is not recommended for bottling as it is difficult to control, too little or too much can be detrimental and can affect carbonation. Auxillary on its own will still remove proteins for bottling.
 

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