£58 for the brewday!!? .......Lets adjust that recipe. Thoughts on adjustments?

[Welsh Badger]

Hi all,
Brewday yesterday and decided to go for a double IPA based on Pliny the Elder. Yes, i know. I have less than 1 years experience and will likely end up tasting like a drip tray. Alas....i priced it up on The Malt Miller website. (btw...i would love to support LHBS but i am in Chester and i have not found one local to me that is any good / reliable / stock decent range of ingredients and hops.

So, the original recipe was below:

13.25 lb	American - Pale 2-Row		37	1.8	87.2%
0.60 lb	American - Caramel / Crystal 40L		34	40	3.9%
0.60 lb	American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt)		33	1.8	3.9%
0.75 lb	Corn Sugar - Dextrose		46	0.5	4.9%

3.50 oz	Columbus		Pellet	15	Boil	90 min	171.54	28%
0.75 oz	Columbus		Pellet	15	Boil	45 min	31.54	6%
1 oz	Simcoe		Pellet	12.7	Boil	30 min	29.81	8%
1 oz	Centennial		Pellet	10	Aroma	0 min		8%
2.50 oz	Simcoe		Pellet	12.7	Aroma	0 min		20%
1 oz	Columbus		Pellet	15	Dry Hop	13 days		8%
1 oz	Centennial		Pellet	10	Dry Hop	13 days		8%
1 oz	Simcoe		Pellet	12.7	Dry Hop	13 days		8%
0.25 oz	Columbus		Pellet	15	Dry Hop	5 days		2%
0.25 oz	Centennial		Pellet	10	Dry Hop	5 days		2%
0.25 oz	Simcoe		Pellet	12.7	Dry Hop	5 days		2%

Total: Columbus 155g, Simcoe 133g, Centennial 65g = 353g total hops.
Yeast
White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast or
Wyeast 1056 American Ale Yeast

Original Gravity: 1.072
Final Gravity: 1.011
Extract Efficiency: 75 percent
IBUs: 90-95 (actual/not calculated)
ABV: 8.2%
SRM: 7

Once totalled on Malt Miller this brewday would have cost me £58! (including tax and delivery)

Being a typical northerner....i adjusted the recipe to save ££. Therefore, below is the adjustment:

Ingredients

Water: 6.0 gallons (23 L) [Net: 5 gallons (18.9 L) after hop loss]

Malts

13.25 lb (6.01 kg) Two-Row pale malt
0.6 lb (272 g) Crystal 45 malt
0.6 lb (272 g) Carapils (Dextrin) Malt

Adjunct

0.75 lb (340 g) Dextrose (corn) sugar)

Hops:

Mosaic (16.7g) (already in freezer)

Citra (20g) (already in freezer)

Hop & Adjuncts Regime

90 boil: 10g of Admiral

45 boil: 21g of Admiral

30 boil: 20g of Citra

15 boil: 1 x protafloc tablet added

0 boil: 16.7g of Mosaic

0 boil: 71g of Bobek

Pitched yeast at 25c. Chose Safale US 05 dry yeast. Pitched 2.5 packets (roughly 28-30g after Brewers Friend calculation)

Keep at an accurate 17c on the heat mat.


Dry Hopping

8 days in primary: 28g of Admiral

8 days in primary: 28g of Bobek

8 days in primary: 28g of Hersbrucker

13 days in primary: 7g of Admiral

13 days in primary: 7g of Bobek

13 days in primary: 7g of Hersbrucker

Original Gravity: 1.084
Final Gravity: 1.011 (aim)
Extract Efficiency: 69 percent calculated (I know…not awesome, but ok as using kettle)
IBUs: 90-95 (actual/not calculated)
ABV: 8.2% aim
17 litres in the FV


So, i used my trusty brew book to find hops with similar AA and flavour profiles but for alot less. Instead of a double american IPA it will be a collaberation between American and European. A NATOIPA if you like

My question is do you think it will work? Or be a confusing hoppy mess? Honest answers encouraged, ive thick skin

 

[Welsh Badger]

Oh, the pale malt was Maris Otter extra pale.

 

[Leon103]

I think it will be drinkable.

Personally i would have gone with the top one (Not sure how it is costing so much), but ordered the hops and yeast from CML. MM are always expensive for hops

 

[robster62]

Just priced this on geterbrewed comes to £37

 

[Cwrw666]

Looks like an American recipe, so just be aware that a US pint is a bit of a pathetic relative of the UK pint.

 

[An Ankoù]

How does this look from Geterbrewed:
Hops:
225g Columbus £8.44
100g Simcoe £5.85 (you need a bit more than 100g so make it up from the others)
100g Centennial £4.70
That's £18.99 for the hops

Grains:
Crisp's Extra Pale Malt 5Kg + 1Kg £7.12
Crisp's Extra Light Crystal Malt 1Kg £2.00
Weyermann Carapils 500g £1.32
That's £10.44 for the malts.

Use table sugar instead of dextrose- it'll be inverted in the boil and, if not, the yeast'll do it.
Use Safale S-05 or one of the MJ yeasts. Say £4 for the sugar and yeast.

I make that £33, a saving of £25.

 

[JockyBrewer]

A few thoughts to get the biggest bang for your buck:

Only use the Mosaic in dry hop. It shines like no other hop at this stage. I would do the same with the Citra, you're wasting it at 30 minutes.

The 45 and 30 minute hops aren't going to give you much. Put enough hops in at 90 minutes to get your desired IBU and then save hops for flameout.

Replace dextrose with cane sugar. There's a difference between the two, but the main aim here is to dry out the beer.

Consider keeping/reusing yeast in future. Before you dry hop put some slurry into a sterilised jam jar and stick it in the fridge. 100g of dry malt extract used to make a 1 litre starter from the slurry costs about 50p.

On the recipe in general, I don't think you'll get much from the Hersbrucker or Bobek. I think using these is a false economy unless you're making this as a throwaway batch.

I would recommend getting some Columbus, because it's cheap and quite unique, and take a look at the cheaper USA hops like Chinook, El Dorado and Cascade to back it up.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

just invite your mates round to taste it, on the basis that they bring the food ... You’ll be in profit for sure

 

[Redgrave_3]

Just to add that if you’re concerned about cost per brew (rightly so) you can always order ingredients for more than one brew at a time. I usually order two or three at a time and it doesn’t impact the delivery cost.

 

[Welsh Badger]

Just to add that if you’re concerned about cost per brew (rightly so) you can always order ingredients for more than one brew at a time. I usually order two or three at a time and it doesn’t impact the delivery cost.

Good idea. Mrs will have a fit though if I'm finding space to store kgs of grain. Half a freezer shelf already has hops in it

 

[An Ankoù]

Good idea. Mrs will have a fit though if I'm finding space to store kgs of grain. Half a freezer shelf already has hops in it

You shouldn't freeze malt. Get one of these and store all your malts in it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-St...af19e&pd_rd_wg=BNF7V&pd_rd_i=B07JGVSWND&psc=1

 

[Welsh Badger]

You shouldn't freeze malt. Get one of these and store all your malts in it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-St...af19e&pd_rd_wg=BNF7V&pd_rd_i=B07JGVSWND&psc=1

Great, thanks. Building extension soon so this will do for that. I don't freeze malt, just hops.

 

[Redgrave_3]

Good idea. Mrs will have a fit though if I'm finding space to store kgs of grain. Half a freezer shelf already has hops in it

Pre-crushed grain seems to keep alright in the bags they come in for a month or so. At least I hope they do. Milling my own is on the list it’s just behind 102 other things.

 

[Welsh Badger]

A few thoughts to get the biggest bang for your buck:

Only use the Mosaic in dry hop. It shines like no other hop at this stage. I would do the same with the Citra, you're wasting it at 30 minutes.

The 45 and 30 minute hops aren't going to give you much. Put enough hops in at 90 minutes to get your desired IBU and then save hops for flameout.

Replace dextrose with cane sugar. There's a difference between the two, but the main aim here is to dry out the beer.

Consider keeping/reusing yeast in future. Before you dry hop put some slurry into a sterilised jam jar and stick it in the fridge. 100g of dry malt extract used to make a 1 litre starter from the slurry costs about 50p.

On the recipe in general, I don't think you'll get much from the Hersbrucker or Bobek. I think using these is a false economy unless you're making this as a throwaway batch.

I would recommend getting some Columbus, because it's cheap and quite unique, and take a look at the cheaper USA hops like Chinook, El Dorado and Cascade to back it up.

Great, thanks. Tried El Dorado and liked them

 

[Braufather]

Pre-crushed grain seems to keep alright in the bags they come in for a month or so. At least I hope they do. Milling my own is on the list it’s just behind 102 other things.

3 months at least if sealed I’d say.

 

[Clint]

Keep your malt dry and sealed it'll last a year.

 

[An Ankoù]

3 months at least if sealed I’d say.

A lot, lot longer than that, if stored properly.

 

[The Cat]

MM grain always comes with a very long use before date I've found. Like over a year on most of mine.

 

[An Ankoù]

3 months at least if sealed I’d say.

Thinking about it, I can keep a bag of flour, which is more than just crushed, in a paper bag, in a kitchen cupboard, for at least a year, maybe more, and it still makes good bread or pastry even when the sell-by-date has passed. My crushed grain is looked after far better than that. I not saying that fresh, freshly-milled, whole grain wouldn't be tastier, but that doesn't take away from the fact that crushed grain is a blt more resilient than we might imagine.
I had one of those dodgy Chinese grinders that look like a tinned coffee grinder and they're a complete pain in the jacksie to use, but the output is perfectly good. Recently got a Grain Gorilla, which is a completely different kettle of fish, as I wanted to use some continental malts that don't come crushed. I like the ability to be able to mill a bit finer, so, I'll be buying uncrushed from now on, but I still insist that crushed malts lasts a long, long time.

 

[chopps]

If you’re in Cheshire or nearby you can save a lot on malt by using the forum malt group buy (see group buy forum). I’m doing Pliny the Elder next weekend at £38 for a 34L boil volume. That’s for malt, hops, and yeast.

If you read around, the sugar addition was what Vinnie @ RR used to bump up the OG in an early recipe iteration (due to vessel size) and it’s still in the published recipes. True or not, no idea.

Today’s delivery for the group buy has dates of 31/5/2023, pre crushed at Crisp. That’s 2 years.