AG#17 Amarillo and Citra.

[Duxuk]

I have done a few brew day threads, usually when I think I have made some improvement to my brewing. Recently I had realised that although bottled beers were easy enough to match or better I was still not achieving the massive hop flavours of some draught beers. I have been particularly impressed with Hawkshead brewery and their Cumbrian 5 Hop and NZPA. These are beers with a much bigger flavour than I had ever produced. I was using some hops for bittering, very little in the 15 to 20 minute area and a load at flameout. Having tried a few brews with much higher levels of hopping at 20 minutes I have found that there is a lot of flavour to be had, which has been missing from my brews. This is a BIAB method.
I have also, by accident almost, found that Amarillo and Citra are excellent partners. I have called this beer AC Ace, after the sports car of the 1960s. Having struggled to find names I will now always name my beers after sports cars.
I have been cautious with the bittering hops because I've used a 43g at 20 minutes, which will also add bitterness along with flavour.

I will add 20g of Citra at 10 days and ferment for 14 days before bottling, assuming it's finished at that point.
I am doing a mini sparge when I've drained the grain bag. This gets more sugar out of the grains and is done whilst you wait for the bulk to reach a boil so it doesn't add any more time to your day. I started with 21l of water at 68C and aded another 4l at 75 to 80C in my sparge which is pictured below.


OK, so you have to drain the bag twice, but it's easy enough to do and will hopefully give me 20l at 1054 OG . The efficiency, according to my calculation method, was 87% when I brewed this beer previously. I'm not chasing efficiency at the expense of quality. The previous version of this beer is fabulous, which is why I'm doing it again with virtually no changes. I am using up all my current supply of hops, which is why I have 3g of Amarillo at 20 minutes. I will update later when I have my OG and volume figures.

 

[The Goatreich]

Am I reading that correctly? You used 21l in the mash and then sparged with only 4l?

 

[Duxuk]

It's a BIAB. I did mention it but it was a little hidden in my account. I then did a mini sparge with 4l of water. I can only manage this small amount with my current setup. Last time I tried a 7l sparge and it was a nightmare to get 7l of water at 80C. This way is easy though. I use a 2l jug which , when filled with a kettle and topped up to the 2l mark gives water at 75-80C, so I just need 2 jugs.
Anyway, the results are in. OG was 1057, volume was 19.75l. I was suprised with the OG 'cos last time it was only 1054. I double and triplle checked my OG as the temperature of the sample fell and it remained the same when temp corrected so I checked the hydrometer in water and that was OK. So that's it, I got 90.86% efficiency using my usual calculation. Other methods may give slightly different results but I intend to keep to my method of calculation so that I can compare with previous brews.
I now strap a piece of voile over the FV, put the flameout hops in and transfer the wort at 90C onto this. There is little risk of infection at 90C and I can leave the hops to steep before draining. I've yet to experience infection in 17 AGs ( and dozens of extract brews previously).
It took me 5 hours but would be quicker with a better method of heating. I use a domestic electric stove.
The grain didn't taste sweet when I threw it away, so I think I'm doing well with my extraction. I am not heating the grain above 75C to avoid tannin release. I mashout at 75C but turn the heat off when I reach that temp. Beer tastes great so I'll stick with this method 'til I think of some improvement. :

 

[The Goatreich]

Ah yes of course, I hadn't thought that BIAB would be a different method there. Sounds delicious.

 

[clibit]

I do a mash and a sparge in a bag in the boiling pot but I don't get that kind of efficiency. More like 75%. The main difference is that I mash in about 3 litres water per kg of grain, and then sparge in the same amount of water. Actually I mill my own grain in a corona mill, that may affect things too. Interesting, thanks.

Also, I've been contemplating just doing first wort hops and flameout hops, but you may have put me off that and I may focus instead on using later additions for flavour and bittering, with a small bittering addition at the start of the boil, and some flameout hops.

I need to try some different methods for myself though. Still early days for me. I will probably try those two hop regimes simultaneously to test them out against each other.

 

[Duxuk]

I need to try some different methods for myself though. Still early days for me. I will probably try those two hop regimes simultaneously to test them out against each other.

I hope if you do that you'll post your results. It would be interesting :thumb:
I was in the habit of doing American pale ale style brews which seemed to concentrate on bittering and late hopping, with litltle in the middle. It could, of course, just be that I've upped the total amout of hop use but at the moment my thinking is that it's the middle hopping at 20 minutes that's giving me a big increase in flavours.

 

[clibit]

I will do. In the meantime, read this thread from across the pond if you have time...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/how-get ... ns-213803/

 

[Asalpaws]

You might be interested in "hop bursting". As in adding all the hops in the last 20 mins of the boil with no bittering hops, good article on Jamil's website http://www.mrmalty.com/article.php

Might give it ago next hoppy beer I brew. T

 

[Duxuk]

Just to give an update on this brew, which I've just started drinking in earnest :drink: A sweet start with a dry finish. The hops are amazing. A nice balance between bitterness and the brighter, fruitier notes. I'm thinking that the combination of Amarillo and Citra is something special. The citrus flavours blend seamlessly with blackcurrant/ forest fruits. The finish last and lasts. I might give it more dry hop next time to enhance it further.