Beginner needs hoppy ale recipe feedback please

[Strongarm]

I'm due a new brew (only #3, so very much a beginner) and looking to focus on the amarillo hops I have in the freezer, whilst utilising some high AA Columbus I have for the bittering.

I'm a fan of hoppy American ales, and the bit of the recipe I'd most like feedback on is the hop schedule. For my first brew I dry hopped with 25gr of Cascade in a 12L brew (recipe is linked to in signature) but I didn't find the hop aroma particularly prominent (although all in all was very happy for a first brew), so I've upped the amounts here. Brew time is very much in short supply, so ideally dont want to boil more than 45 minutes.

Any thoughts appreciated, especially if they're regarding hops.

Note the recipe is only 16 litres.

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 45 min
Batch Size: 16 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 10 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.091
Efficiency: 35% (steeping grains only)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 5.38%
IBU (tinseth): 51.47
SRM (morey): 8.14

FERMENTABLES:
2.5 kg - Dry Malt Extract - Light (87.7%)

STEEPING GRAINS:
0.25 kg - German - CaraAmber (8.8%)
0.1 kg - United Kingdom - Crystal 75L/150EBC (3.5%)

HOPS:
30 g - Columbus, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 41.16
20 g - Amarillo, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 9.2, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 6.65
20 g - Amarillo, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 9.2, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 3.66
20 g - Amarillo, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 9.2, Use: Boil for 0 min
40 g - Amarillo, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 9.2, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - English Ale Yeast S-04

Cheers

 

[barry44]

In my opinion, if you want hops, leave the steeping grains out and go only with the base malt.

I would also combine your Amarillo additions and put them in at five minutes leaving them as the wort cools. Adjust the 45 minute hops to provide the Bittering you want or boil for an hour.

I recently started the five minute addition and the aroma and flavour that comes through is great.

 

[barry44]

Oh and use us-05 instead of s-04.

 

[graysalchemy]

I would leave you hops schedule as is however i would boil for at least an hour adding the hops at the beginning. The reason for a long boil is to secure the hot break a short boil runs the risk of clarity issues later on.

I would also use US-05 and I would also dump the crystal malt in an APA, you want the hops to shine

 

[Strongarm]

Thank you both.

Regarding steeping grains the Crystal was a very late addition to recipe, so will drop. I was hoping the CaraRed would add a bit of heads though. I'm only two brews in and the extract only one seems very thin compared to the extract + steeped grains. So saying it is 4.5% vs 6.5% so that probably plays a part.

I have a sachet of US-05 so can use that instead, first experiences of it were it's a pain to clear (looking at beer in FV), but then I cold crashed said beer and it seems to have cleared it OK. So hope the weather stays cold for a bit as I have to rely on mother-nature for my cold-crashing.

I would also combine your Amarillo additions and put them in at five minutes leaving them as the wort cools. Adjust the 45 minute hops to provide the Bittering you want or boil for an hour.

I recently started the five minute addition and the aroma and flavour that comes through is great.

What's the theory behind putting everything in at 5 minutes? Just simplifying the process? I did wonder if I needed 3 separate flavour/aroma additions. And did just have the 10 and 0 for quite a while when putting this together. Not sure if I'm overcomplicating things though.

 

[graysalchemy]

I think you get more complex flavours and aroma's by doing 10,5,0 hop additions. This is my brew today

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 55.0
Total Grain (kg): 11.860
Total Hops (g): 304.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.056 (°P): 13.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (°P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.50 %
Colour (SRM): 4.6 (EBC): 9.0
Bitterness (IBU): 46.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 82
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
10.674 kg Pale Ale Malt (90%)
0.593 kg Flaked Oats (5%)
0.593 kg Wheat Malt (5%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Chinook Leaf (13.8% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Willamette Leaf (6.3% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
37.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
32.0 g Chinook Leaf (13.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
25.0 g Willamette Leaf (6.3% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
35.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
40.0 g Chinook Leaf (13.8% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
30.0 g Willamette Leaf (6.3% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)
15.0 g Chinook Leaf (13.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)
15.0 g Willamette Leaf (6.3% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)

It's a clone of St austells Proper Job (with wheat malt and oats added)

As I have just pointed out above Wheat malt is a better addition for head retention oats will help but also add a smoothness to my beer, but to use them involves a mini mash/glucan rest so as you are doing an extract I would leave it out, its only me who seems to put oats in everything :lol: :lol: .

 

[Strongarm]

I saw that recipe yesterday, you've definitely got all the flavour/aroma additions covered. Are you dry hopping it at all?

I've been tempted to add oats, but know it requires a mash/mini-mash so will have to be in the future.

With a couple of babies taking up all my time, all my brews are ones I can squeeze in after everyone else has gone to bed, hence worrying about 45 vs 60 min boils, let alone mashing.

They'll grow up soon enough though, then my brewing can.

So you would leave out the CaraRed (which I guess is a type of Crystal too) as well as the Crystal Crystal? Would certainly make my brew easier to squeeze in.

 

[graysalchemy]

If you are using the carared for head retention then leave it in.

Yes I will be dry hopping as well probably the same addition as the 0 min addition, but I will had this after fermentation has finished. :thumb:

 

[barry44]

I started with the five minute additions after reading this:

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/view ... hp?t=59148
Late Hopping Experiment (hot)

I've never had any bad brews since doing it. I generally throw in 100g of a flavour hop between the 5 minute and dry hop. I may start a ten minute addition as well.

 

[Strongarm]

Interesting on the 5 minute addition.

Going back to head retention, any idea how I'd go about a little mini-mash to get some oats in? I assume I could use any old oats, and a friend has a load of pale malt.

For the recipe and batch size above, how much oats and pale malt would I need, and how much water at what temp for how long?

And if I was doing that, would anything be gained from adding the caraamber to said mini-mash?

Cheers

 

[graysalchemy]

A glucan rest is holding the oats with 20% of the oats weight in pale malt, and water at 35-40c for 30 minutes and then adding this to the main mash to continue. It probably won't be possible with an extract brew, though.

Wheat malt is the best thing for head retention, but what ever you do don't use torrified wheat. :evil: :evil: The devils toenail clippings :lol: :lol:

 

[Strongarm]

Thanks. After success of #2 in signature I think I'm going to scrap grains altogether and just try pure light DME for this one (as I believe you both probably suggested earlier in thread). Will be nice and quick and i'll learn how light DME on its own turns out.

Thanks for all the input. I shall refer back once I'm ready for mashing and glucan rests.

Hopefully will get it going Sunday and will get a thread going on Brewdays forum once I do.