A T
Regular.
You posted when i was writing 
Bottle Sanitiser design - Your thoughts please
- Thread starter BrewStew
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the way i'm thinking it might work is this:
i'm no physicist so please help me out here if my assumptions are incorrect.
say the area of the end of the hose from the steamer is n, and the force of air coming out of that hose was x newtons or psi or however you want to measure it... aslong as the total area of all the holes on the aparatus equalled n, you'd not lose pressure, and if every hole was exactly the same area, then you'd have equal steam from all the holes. you could then work out how much pressure goes to each bottle nozzle by using x divided by the total amount of holes on the aparatus times the amount of holes on the nozzle. this is assuming perfect laminar flow, but of course that wouldn't be the case as turbulence occurs at every change in direction... but aslong as the aparatus is under pressure and all holes are the same size, the distribution would be even surely? if it weren't under pressure and you were depending on convection i'm guessing there would be problems.
Edited, sorry
and again... hehe
i'm no physicist so please help me out here if my assumptions are incorrect.
say the area of the end of the hose from the steamer is n, and the force of air coming out of that hose was x newtons or psi or however you want to measure it... aslong as the total area of all the holes on the aparatus equalled n, you'd not lose pressure, and if every hole was exactly the same area, then you'd have equal steam from all the holes. you could then work out how much pressure goes to each bottle nozzle by using x divided by the total amount of holes on the aparatus times the amount of holes on the nozzle. this is assuming perfect laminar flow, but of course that wouldn't be the case as turbulence occurs at every change in direction... but aslong as the aparatus is under pressure and all holes are the same size, the distribution would be even surely? if it weren't under pressure and you were depending on convection i'm guessing there would be problems.
Edited, sorry
and again... hehe
A T
Regular.
It does make sense when you confuse me like that If you right then it will be fantastic. Of course you know Vossy will just build a stainless steel one :lol: I'm sure himself and Phil will catch this topic and lots to say on it but it's all a little beyond my construction worker brain now
If you right then it will be fantastic. Of course you know Vossy will just build a stainless steel one :lol: I'm sure himself and Phil will catch this topic and lots to say on it but it's all a little beyond my construction worker brain now oooooh stainless that's an idea as it doesn't conduct heat as well, meaning the steam will be hotter as it's not exchanging heat with the air en route :) i wouldn't want to fork out for the fabrication though haha
yeah i'm gunna leave the thinking for tonight and await some more input... my head hurts now :cry:
that's an idea as it doesn't conduct heat as well, meaning the steam will be hotter as it's not exchanging heat with the air en route :) i wouldn't want to fork out for the fabrication though hahayeah i'm gunna leave the thinking for tonight and await some more input... my head hurts now :cry:
A T
Regular.
BrewStew said:
Now that's an idea :lol:
dammit i cant stop thinking about it :lol:
on both those renderings i've shown holes down the shafts of the "prongs"... i'm wondering if they'll really be necessary and wonder if just a hole in the end cap will suffice. i'm thinking this because obviously hot air/steam is lighter than room temp air, so will it fill the bottle with hot steam regardless?
if that's the case then that solves my hole area problem. if the hose on a steamer is about 20mm, then 40 0.5mm holes is the same area... so the steamer wont get over or under worked..
oh sod it i'll just by a bloody steamer and experiment haha
on both those renderings i've shown holes down the shafts of the "prongs"... i'm wondering if they'll really be necessary and wonder if just a hole in the end cap will suffice. i'm thinking this because obviously hot air/steam is lighter than room temp air, so will it fill the bottle with hot steam regardless?
if that's the case then that solves my hole area problem. if the hose on a steamer is about 20mm, then 40 0.5mm holes is the same area... so the steamer wont get over or under worked..
oh sod it i'll just by a bloody steamer and experiment haha
Great idea :!:
But.... I think you will need a lot of pressure to get a reasonable amount of steam from all those holes. I think it might be perhaps more feasible to do a 6 or 9 bottle job first and see how it goes.
I don't really buy into your reasoning on the hole sizes and stuff and I think you'll need more pressure than a wallpaper steamer can provide. Also, I think the steam will cool down before it reaches the far reaches of the pipework and, hence, lose pressure. You may help it by insulation :? Lastly, not wanting to be negative (but I'm going to) I reckon steam's a dangerous thing and even more so at pressure. Be careful!
I feel mean to **** on your fireworks but I'm just saying how I see it. I reckon it's a great concept all the same :)
/Phil.
But.... I think you will need a lot of pressure to get a reasonable amount of steam from all those holes. I think it might be perhaps more feasible to do a 6 or 9 bottle job first and see how it goes.
I don't really buy into your reasoning on the hole sizes and stuff and I think you'll need more pressure than a wallpaper steamer can provide. Also, I think the steam will cool down before it reaches the far reaches of the pipework and, hence, lose pressure. You may help it by insulation :? Lastly, not wanting to be negative (but I'm going to) I reckon steam's a dangerous thing and even more so at pressure. Be careful!
I feel mean to **** on your fireworks but I'm just saying how I see it. I reckon it's a great concept all the same :)
/Phil.
even bad crits are good crits mate :)
there's no such thing as a flawless plan, and it's usually best to get as many eyes on the case to spot those flaws :)
i do have the a feeling my dream of a 40 bottle steriliser from one steamer might be a bit up in the clouds, but even if i could only manage just 5 bottles on the go at once i reckon it'd still be useful.
noted on the steam, i'll be standing in my Morrison Shelter, aka under the kitchen table when i fire it up :lol:
there's no such thing as a flawless plan, and it's usually best to get as many eyes on the case to spot those flaws :)
i do have the a feeling my dream of a 40 bottle steriliser from one steamer might be a bit up in the clouds, but even if i could only manage just 5 bottles on the go at once i reckon it'd still be useful.
noted on the steam, i'll be standing in my Morrison Shelter, aka under the kitchen table when i fire it up :lol:
Vossy1
Landlord.
I share Phils concerns and think experimenting with a smaller number of bottles first may be a better idea.
I see a problem with the end hole on the copper pipe, that the base of the bottle sits on. The steam will exit at the points of lowest restistance, and hence the steam will not exit at the base of the bottle. This in itself creates a blind spot for sanitation and unless you have a prolonged steaming time, nasties can remain viable at this point.
There may be an easier way to sanitise your bottles BS but I haven't tried it. You can put all the bottles in your oven, for a specified time, at a certain temp. You have to check the bottles carefully for air bubbles first, as they can cause the glass to crack at hight temps as the gas in the bubble expands faster than the surrounding glass.
I think Ryan Manchester tried a quick steaming idea using a pan and modified lid...hopefully he'll be able to give you some feedback on your idea.
I see a problem with the end hole on the copper pipe, that the base of the bottle sits on. The steam will exit at the points of lowest restistance, and hence the steam will not exit at the base of the bottle. This in itself creates a blind spot for sanitation and unless you have a prolonged steaming time, nasties can remain viable at this point.
There may be an easier way to sanitise your bottles BS but I haven't tried it. You can put all the bottles in your oven, for a specified time, at a certain temp. You have to check the bottles carefully for air bubbles first, as they can cause the glass to crack at hight temps as the gas in the bubble expands faster than the surrounding glass.
I think Ryan Manchester tried a quick steaming idea using a pan and modified lid...hopefully he'll be able to give you some feedback on your idea.
Vossy1
Landlord.
Why can't you mount it vertically and pump sanitising solution through it instead of steam?
A cheap pump can't be hard to find
Or, mount it on the wall, and use a drip tray to catch the spent sanitising solution, using a pump to recirc it?
A cheap pump can't be hard to find
Or, mount it on the wall, and use a drip tray to catch the spent sanitising solution, using a pump to recirc it?
I was thinking the bottle would rest on the T piece like this:
but i'm thinking of revisiting this design... shortening the prong and just having holes at the tip.
as for the pumping of sanitiser, i'm actually giving serious thought to your shower tray idea elsewhere on the forum :) would be alot safer.
but i'm thinking of revisiting this design... shortening the prong and just having holes at the tip.
as for the pumping of sanitiser, i'm actually giving serious thought to your shower tray idea elsewhere on the forum :) would be alot safer.
and there was me thinking shower trays were expensive:
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/hydrolux-lite-shower-tray-55-15538
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/hydrolux-lite-shower-tray-55-15538
OK using that cheapy shower tray for basis i've come up with the following design in plan form to see how many bottles can be done at the same time:
25 bottles it reckon :)
of course plastic piping can be used for this idea as it wont be using steam, making it lighter and cheaper to make. i notice the shower tray in the link above praises it's light weight, so would be cheaper to post too
The way it would work is you pour your sanitiser solution into the shower tray, stick your bottles on and switch on the pump. The solution will be recirculating so it wont waste water or solution. it'll also be less messy than the steam idea, not to mention safer.
Kudos goes to Vossy for the idea
25 bottles it reckon :)
of course plastic piping can be used for this idea as it wont be using steam, making it lighter and cheaper to make. i notice the shower tray in the link above praises it's light weight, so would be cheaper to post too
The way it would work is you pour your sanitiser solution into the shower tray, stick your bottles on and switch on the pump. The solution will be recirculating so it wont waste water or solution. it'll also be less messy than the steam idea, not to mention safer.
Kudos goes to Vossy for the idea
Does anyone know whom the cheapest plumbing supplier in the uk is? i just costed this up based on 10mm john guest plastic fittings from uk-plumbing.com. the list is as follows:
4 elbows
34 equal tees
25 stop ends
about 5 meters of 10mm piping
and a coupler of some sort to connect to the pump
this is coming to just shy of £140 :shock: not including £30 for the tray.... YOUCH! surely there's cheaper around
4 elbows
34 equal tees
25 stop ends
about 5 meters of 10mm piping
and a coupler of some sort to connect to the pump
this is coming to just shy of £140 :shock: not including £30 for the tray.... YOUCH! surely there's cheaper around
*nods*
but that comes in at over £200 in fittings :shock: and i'd be a bit concerned about melting the shower tray when soldering the joints on the underside/inside of the lip, so i thought about bracing the prongs with additional plastic and some epoxy.
but that comes in at over £200 in fittings :shock: and i'd be a bit concerned about melting the shower tray when soldering the joints on the underside/inside of the lip, so i thought about bracing the prongs with additional plastic and some epoxy.
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