Brasserie de la Senne yeast?

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Sadfield said:
Interesting that you mention Bruxellensis and Harvey's. My understanding of Harvey's (possibly wrong) is that the phenolic part is dekkera that doesn't present for several months ageing. This appears very similar to the way De La Senne approach their Saisons, house yeast plus brettanomyces.
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No, you're mixing up two separate things. You're thinking of the extra bug in their Imperial Stout which is not Dekkera (another name for Brett) but Debaryomyces hansenii, a different wild yeast that is normally associated with brackish water - which would fit with Lewes being on an estuary.

The phenolics in their other beers comes from a saison-type Saccharomyces in the multistrain used for primary fermentation, which is way more common in British beers than US yeast labs would have you believe, for instance around 40-50% of the main Brewlab strains mention phenolics in their descriptions. The saison yeasts seem to be particularly associated with Yorkshire Squares, and of course Harvey's yeast originally came from John Smith's.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
No, you're mixing up two separate things. You're thinking of the extra bug in their Imperial Stout which is not Dekkera (another name for Brett) but Debaryomyces hansenii, a different wild yeast that is normally associated with brackish water - which would fit with Lewes being on an estuary.

The phenolics in their other beers comes from a saison-type Saccharomyces in the multistrain used for primary fermentation, which is way more common in British beers than US yeast labs would have you believe, for instance around 40-50% of the main Brewlab strains mention phenolics in their descriptions. The saison yeasts seem to be particularly associated with Yorkshire Squares, and of course Harvey's yeast originally came from John Smith's.
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Yes you are correct, thanks. Got my D's mixed up. Although, not the gist of the point. That De La Senne reach a same end point, that's possibly inspired by Harvey's. Clean beers with a saccharomyces house strain and rustic beers where the house strain is augmented by a wild yeast. Rather than the more common approach in craft brewing, of switching sacch strains for clean beers and a true* Saison yeast for Saisons.

*true lifted from Yvans own writings on Saison brewing to refer to two strains currently available commercially.

Anyhow, whilst I've your attention. Any thoughts on the original question regarding the source of their house strain?
 
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Sadfield said:
Anyhow, whilst I've your attention. Any thoughts on the original question regarding the source of their house strain?
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'Fraid I've got no particular insight on that, there's a thread on HBT which looks into various aspects of Taras but doesn't really get very far on the yeast. I guess in principle if you could grow up some dregs one could sequence some DNA...
 
Sadfield said:
I don't think it's that, and I'm not trying to clone anything, but I'm going to have a play with K-97 in my open FV using this philosophy. Enhancing the esters of a subtle yeast, rather than control those of an expressive one.
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Well K-97 fermented in a shallow FV at 26°C, as per De La Senne's process below, certainly makes for a tasty beer with a pillowy head. It's very kind to hop flavours.

"They collect wort at 21-22°C, with weak beers the temperature is allowed to rise to 26°C to encourage ester formation, for strong beers the temperature is kept to 24°C to limit higher alcohol formation. Secondary fermentation is carried out at 23°C for 15 days and carbonation of 5.5g/l is aimed for in bottles."
 

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Little side by side comparison of my TB inspired Belgian pale and the real deal. It's in the same ball park but not close enough.
TB still has a crisper more bitter edge to it. TB hop flavour is still a bit more lemony with a higher grassier feel to it. My beer is the furthest from the bottle so you can see its a little lighter.
Next version will go with slightly more gypsum, maybe slighter higher in carbonate on the RO/tap water blend. Going to go with brewers gold in mid boil for a higher cohumulone for the bitterness..lots of Mittelfrueh late and dry with Styrian Wolf. This yeast combo was a Kolsch yeast and cml house. Going with T-58 and US05 blend for next version.

Or might go back to WLP400 as a previous attempt I liked with this yeast fermented on the lower end.
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