Cantina kit

[tonyhibbett]

I bought a Cantina cabernet sauvignon kit, never having tried one before, for £30. It seems similar to the Cellar 7and Muntons versions, inasmuch as it's a 7 kg pack, but appears to have some advantages. It doesn't claim to be a 30 bottle kit (21 litres), states the origin, NW Italy, of the the grapes, which suggests mainly sangiovese in the case of reds, and incorporates a 5 litre wine box in the package design, albeit without a tap but with a screw cap and collapsible bag. It also claims to be ready in 5 days. We shall see.

 

[dennisking]

When it's ready you may like to put a review in our review section.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Will do.
I started it today. The sg is only 1078, so would only end up 10% abv. That's why it's a 5 day kit! The pH is 4.9, the flavour thin and the colour somewhat brown. None too promising.
So I added 500g of sugar, to bring up the strength, added oak chips (not included) and enough tartaric acid to bring the pH closer to 3.5. This turned out to be 85 grams! I used up all my tartaric and malic, and had to use citric to complete the job. I also added 5 teaspoons of tannin. These additions have added £3 to the cost, so not such a good deal. I've heard of deficiencies in concentrate, but this appears to be an extreme case! I suspect the ratio of concentrate to sugar is very low.
It now tastes much more like I'd expect.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Sure enough, the citric acid is rapidly being consumed as the pH has shifted to 3.7 from 3.5 in just 24 hours.That's about 10 of the 35 grams I added.
I needed another 200 grams of sugar to bring the og to the desired 1090, but have run out. Since I now have 5 litres of red gjc, I decided to use that instead, to maintain the balance of grape and sugar. 300 g gjc is about the equivalent of 200 g of sugar. The pH of the gjc is 3.2. Adding it to the brew has put the pH back to 3.5, and also added another £2 to the total cost which is now £35, the same as a Cellar 7 kit. It also strongly suggests a very low proportion of gjc in the kit. Theoretically, it may be possible to assess the proportion of gjc to sugar /water/glucose syrup by measuring the acidity of the mixture, before diluting. The water and sugar dilutes the acid, so half the acidity of pure gjc means a 50/50 mix, assuming that no extra acid has been added. This should be done by titration, since, having diluted a sample of my pure gjc with 3 parts water, the pH remained unchanged at 3.2! My gjc has a reading of 24 ppt (as sulphuric). If diluted with 4 parts water, this would be under 5. Therefore a similarly diluted sample of the kit concentrate with a reading of 2 ppt would have less than 50% gjc. This Cantina kit has no added acid. Judging by the amount of acid required to bring it up to it's present 5 ppt, it seems the gjc content is less than 50%. Another way of measuring is density. A Cellar 7 kit also weighs 7 kg, but when made up to 21 litres, the sg is 1090, whereas the Cantina is only 1078, which means it's concentrate contains a higher proportion of water.
The sg is now 1070. Taking account of the extra sugars, this is a drop of 20, which suggests the claimed 4 day fermentation may well be valid if starting at the original 1078.

 

[tonyhibbett]

I got a reply from the kit producers, who said they would test the batch. They also said that most of the concentrate is from pure varietal grapes with only a small amount of sugar syrup. Also the og should be 1082, with a pH value of 3.4.
Meanwhile, the pH has stabilised at 3.5. I was intending to add more malic acid, but my supplier no longer stocks it, due to lack of demand.
It seems my titration kit is giving misleading results. This is probably due to the fact that I made up the sodium hydroxide solution from household caustic soda and impure. Therefore more is needed. Not to worry though. I now treat the results as tartaric, rather than sulphuric, and a pH of around 3.5 suits my palate so I don't really need titration any more. 5 grams of acid in 20 litres changes the pH value by 0.1.
In order to clear up the mysteries of gjc proportions in kits, I will set my own standard, using a modified recipe for chianti.
For 23 litres:
3 litres red gjc
400 grams of dried elderberries
Oak chips
2 kilos of sugar
Acid to pH 3.5
That's about 60% grape, with the elderberries as a 'flavouring' component and colour enricher. The fairly small quantity should reduce the maturing time significantly. Should work out at about £26. The original recipe used slightly less concentrate, slightly more elderberry and no oak or acidity adjustment.

 

[evanvine]

I take it you won't be doing a Cantina kit again!

 

[tonyhibbett]

If they concede a fault and send me a replacement which is up to scratch, then I will do that kit and assess the results objectively, otherwise no, especially as I can get Cellar 7 fairly locally at £30 and get good results at 12% abv. in 7 days.
I had a problem with overly acidic Youngs kits. It turned out they were getting substandard concentrate and changed their supplier. They replaced my bad kits free of charge and the problem was resolved. These were Winebuddy red kits which have been further degraded by replacing the gjc with elderberry and apple. You can see the bad drift. They keep screwing you until millions actually like a big mac and think of it as real food while they struggle to get out of their seats as their vast layers of fat congeal around it!

 

[evanvine]

I can't fault a word of that Tony.

 

[bobsbeer]

As has often been said with kits. You get what you pay for. Sad but true.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Meanwhile, the brew has gone ballistic, with 2 inches of foam. No other kit has behaved like this. Fortunately I have a 7 gallon bin! It is impossible to use the hydrometer accurately, but the taste suggests it's beyond the half way stage, but unlikely to complete in the claimed 4 days. The colour is not right, not a true red wine red. The concentrate comes from Italy. Do I have the notorious mafia stuff made with sugar, enzymes and dyes? I suspect so. No true grape juice can have a pH of 4.9, certainly not cabernet sauvignon.

 

[tonyhibbett]

As expected, this will not complete in 5 days, more like 8 at this rate. It has an unfamiliar taste, now that the sg is down to 1030. I suspect this is due to the citric acid I added, which has no place in real red wine. The acidity has increased to pH 3.3, which is a bit too high. No word yet from the producers.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Day 5 and sg 1010. It has been at room temperature (20 c) as per instructions. No way a 5 day wine kit.

 

[evanvine]

No way a 5 day wine kit.

To be fair Tony, you've modified the kit!

 

[tonyhibbett]

True, but only to bring it up to the specs the producers claimed.
It now seems stuck at sg 1000 and is too acidic, despite the pH of 3.4, which is what they said it should be. I have reduced the total acid by 15% and it is now more palatable. The odd brownish tinge is becoming more apparent as the wine starts to clear. This is a sign of poor quality concentrate which has become oxidised.
I have read that the yeast used was developed for making bio fuel, industrial alcohol. Turbo yeast.
As yet, I can't say it tastes remotely like cabernet sauvignon, lacks body and colour depth. I found some very favourable reviews, so it seems I have a bad batch.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Day 7 and the sg is down to 998, so I racked it and found the sediment remarkably firm, so very little waste there. The stabiliser pack says it contains E202 (potassium sorbate) and E224 (potassium metabisulphite), but the box says E223 (sodium metabisulphite) and E224, which would contain no sorbate and too much sulphite. This mismatch does not encourage much confidence and is probably illegal. The sachet label is probably correct, as the concentrate already contains E223. Personally. I prefer to make my own decisions about the use of sulphite. With this pack, you have no choice.
The finings, the standard 2 part kit, have been added. The pH remains at 3.7, and at this stage the acidity seems about right.

 

[tonyhibbett]

The instructions say rack the wine the day after fining. Needless to say, the wine hadn't completely cleared, but seemed so at the surface. Nonetheless, it was clear enough to put in a polypin and leave another day, so in the end, a 9 day wine. It's medium to medium dry, rather light in both body and colour, and rather bland, so I added 15 grams of tartaric acid, which helped somewhat.
I ended up with 20.5 litres, which wasn't quite enough to fill the polypin, so I topped it up with 2 litres of the previous Cellar 7 batch. This deepened the colour, raised the acidity and conferred more than a hint of blackcurrant, which is a feature of cabernet sauvignon, so a reasonably good result in the end, but still not as good as the Cellar 7. I won't be buying any more!

 

[evanvine]

I wonder what you would have ended up with if you'd just done what it said on the tin?

 

[tonyhibbett]

I suspect something resembling the original Winebuddy version, before they replaced the grape concentrate with elderberry and apple. It was 20% grape juice once mixed. It stands to reason, then, that you get only one fifth of the acids, tannin, colour. body and flavour.

 

[tonyhibbett]

I have left it for 2 weeks. It still tastes somewhat rough. No doubt it will improve with more time, but I certainly won't buy another, because the Cellar 7 is cheaper, quicker and better. I have just received the Beaverdale version, which looks very promising. The extra cost is mitigated by the fact that it is a 23 litre (not 21) kit with an extra 0.5 kilos of concentrate and 30 g of oak chips included.

 

[tonyhibbett]

It is now very smooth and agreeable to drink, but not as cabernet sauvignon. It's more like the cheap tinto you get in Spain of which discerning locals are suspicious.