converting a milk pasteuriser to RIMS-
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the discouloration of the casing and the melted plastic insulation are the result of us having to use gas to heat the threads before rapid cooling to unscrew the heating element assembly for the ss tube. i rather wish i hadn't done it now i have seen the posts on here!
i have attached another photo of the assembly.
please could someone clarify what the term 'low density' heating element actually means. does it mean low wattage? or what?
mark
Heating density refers to Watts per Square inch of Surface area. If you have a 1KW element 150mm long by 10mm diameter it has a higher watt density that an element 600mm long by 10mm diameter.
There are some elements that are the same size and come in 1W/cm 2.5W/cm 5W/CM and 10W/cm (Squared of course) . . . if you have 100 square CM of each element the wattage of each element would be (100W, 250W, 500W and 1000W)
Ideally you need an element that will allow you to raise the temperature rapidly without scorching the wort. . .although with a small enough heating chamber and a PID this is unlikely to happen.
There are some elements that are the same size and come in 1W/cm 2.5W/cm 5W/CM and 10W/cm (Squared of course) . . . if you have 100 square CM of each element the wattage of each element would be (100W, 250W, 500W and 1000W)
Ideally you need an element that will allow you to raise the temperature rapidly without scorching the wort. . .although with a small enough heating chamber and a PID this is unlikely to happen.
tony
thanks. what figure would you call low density. would 2 of these wired in series be low density if not what combination/format would?
what do think of my ss tube? too big? too small? too ugly? i will clean it first!
mark
thanks. what figure would you call low density. would 2 of these wired in series be low density if not what combination/format would?
what do think of my ss tube? too big? too small? too ugly? i will clean it first!
mark
Assuming the elements are sound, and you wire two of them in series as suggested, they are going to be much lower watt density than a standard Immersion element . . . With a PID I wouldn't worry about low watt density TBH . . .once tuned there is going to be little problems with wort caramelisation.
The real issue the the volume of wort contained within the tube, which I would bet is going to be significant. When I had a RIMS Heater I used a 22mm Tube with a cartridge element running up the middle total volume 500ml
The real issue the the volume of wort contained within the tube, which I would bet is going to be significant. When I had a RIMS Heater I used a 22mm Tube with a cartridge element running up the middle total volume 500ml
springer
the elements heated water in the ss tube which was then mixed bfore it went into the heat exchanger, as milk is very sensitive to excessive heat.the pid controlled the water temp via 2 probes and a three way valve. if i recall correctly milk has to be pasteurised for a certain period at a temp in the 60's C. there is a printout to enable you to show that you have obtained this as i believe it's a statutory process. i didn't actually use it myself.
tony
the volume of the ss tube by by calculation is 4.3litres! based on a diameter of 14cms and a length of 70cms. far too large as you thought. another brilliant idea bites the dust.
when you said you used a cartridge heater what is that and where did you get it from? was your 22mm tube copper then?
mark
the elements heated water in the ss tube which was then mixed bfore it went into the heat exchanger, as milk is very sensitive to excessive heat.the pid controlled the water temp via 2 probes and a three way valve. if i recall correctly milk has to be pasteurised for a certain period at a temp in the 60's C. there is a printout to enable you to show that you have obtained this as i believe it's a statutory process. i didn't actually use it myself.
tony
the volume of the ss tube by by calculation is 4.3litres! based on a diameter of 14cms and a length of 70cms. far too large as you thought. another brilliant idea bites the dust.
when you said you used a cartridge heater what is that and where did you get it from? was your 22mm tube copper then?
mark
unclepumble
Landlord.
Talon_Ted said:
I did wonder how you were going to use this It wouldn't be a good idea running wort directly over the elements you showed, however, it would be viable to run water through your heater and then run this water through a small heat exchanger such as the s/steel ones on ebay, or a blichmann therminator would do it as well, you could then use the heat exchanger later in the process as a chiller, you would need to pump the water through a header tank or something though, so the system could get fairly complicated.
Most pasteurisers are based on 66-67deg, and controlled via flowrate through a PHE measured with a flowmeter, when pasteurising beer it is usually raised to 66 deg and held for around 2 mins inside a large PHE then passed through a second PHE to drop it down to as close to 0deg c for packaging. Milk will probably be a similar process.
UP
Springer
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Interesting post Ted, but I thought it might go this way. 
Quite a few views, not as many as the word game though, never been there myself mind .
No one bit on my Bartlett heater / steam plant, so now its on my mind its going on Fleabay, to pay for some cam lock fittings
Like the pasteurizer. it could be a challenge for someone with spirit :lol:
Quite a few views, not as many as the word game though, never been there myself mind . No one bit on my Bartlett heater / steam plant, so now its on my mind its going on Fleabay, to pay for some cam lock fittings
Like the pasteurizer. it could be a challenge for someone with spirit :lol:
unclepumble
Landlord.
Springer said:Interesting post Ted, but I thought it might go this way.
No one bit on my Bartlett heater / steam plant, so now its on my mind its going on Fleabay, to pay for some cam lock fittings
Like the pasteurizer. it could be a challenge for someone with spirit :lol:
In the right hands That and a PHE, Might make a very good herms and external calandria wort boiler, not mine though, good luck with the sale Springer.
UP
i don't want to appear ignorant but how does that machine boil wort externally or otherwise?
my ingenius solution was to use a standard domestic heating boiler but instead of using water as the heat transfer medium where you would be lilmited to a temp in the high 90's i was intending to use engine oil where you could easily go way above 100 deg C (not that you would want to go much over 150 deg c i would imagine.
when i ran this past acouple of plumbers they weren't very enthusiastic and even said it wouldn't work! however none of them were able to tell me why. always a test i use when i discuss my briliant ideas with those less able than myself! there were a few comments about safety but i am convinced these could be easily overcome. anyway that's a project for another day.
mark
my ingenius solution was to use a standard domestic heating boiler but instead of using water as the heat transfer medium where you would be lilmited to a temp in the high 90's i was intending to use engine oil where you could easily go way above 100 deg C (not that you would want to go much over 150 deg c i would imagine.
when i ran this past acouple of plumbers they weren't very enthusiastic and even said it wouldn't work! however none of them were able to tell me why. always a test i use when i discuss my briliant ideas with those less able than myself! there were a few comments about safety but i am convinced these could be easily overcome. anyway that's a project for another day.
mark
evanvine
Landlord.
I would imagine that one of the big advantages of using oil, is that it can be taken to higher temperature without "boiling", hence no pressurisation + it has a far higher specific heat (less heat loss).
Just a thought!
Just a thought!
Springer
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It might be an interesting project, but not for me. I think you may be on the right lines but not sure about your choice of oil.
I can see the idea working but safety could be an issue and why bother, whats the advantages :?
I think you may be on the right lines but not sure about your choice of oil. I can see the idea working but safety could be an issue and why bother, whats the advantages :?
springer
you can buy heat transfer oil which is non-inflammable. i know because i have tried, accidently obviously!
the idea would be that by having a couple of loops of pipe in your boiler as well as a stirer you could heat more quickly and much more efficiently and obviously actually boil the wort/product.
does anyone know what a cartridge heater is? as referred to by aleman?
thanks
mark
you can buy heat transfer oil which is non-inflammable. i know because i have tried, accidently obviously!
the idea would be that by having a couple of loops of pipe in your boiler as well as a stirer you could heat more quickly and much more efficiently and obviously actually boil the wort/product.
does anyone know what a cartridge heater is? as referred to by aleman?
thanks
mark
Springer
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No I'm out, you're on your own, its starting to sound interesting
:lol:Edit.
Just had a look at my 15 kw boiler, coils inside like you mentioned, :hmm: I see what UP was on about with a bit of interpretation from you Ted, thanks :hmm:
:nono: :nono: :nono:
I have to many projects on at the moment
:nono: :nono: :nono:
Well mine was a 600W Towel radiator heater in a 22mm copper tube ( I think I have the bits left lying around somewhere . . If I find them I'll dig them out and make a parts list . . . plus a photograph) . . . However I ran into a problem with the towel heater . . . they are made of a thermally conductive plastic which is temperature self limiting, and won't go above 60C . . . Ideal in a towel radiator but not in a RIMS unitTalon_Ted said:
Now that I have found Proper Cartridge Heater I reckon I could get a proper working one going The Type 9 Nipple Heater in Low watt density format would be ideal . . . I suppose I could talk to them and see what they say
aleman
i have spoken to 'proper cartridge heater' people today and had a very interesting conversation.
basicly they can do a low density element 150mm long by 12.5mm thick (many other sizes available) for 150watts upwards for £14.95 plus nipple fitting for £2.50.
what wattage do you think for a 25L length brew (i intend to increase to 40L sometime in the future)?
they also do pid controllers, an n332 is £ 35, with j or k thermo couples, the k 's are £18. i thought that i would need 2 for aRIMs but their specialist didn't think so based on what i told him (from my very limited knowledge).
any thoughts anybody?
mark
i have spoken to 'proper cartridge heater' people today and had a very interesting conversation.
basicly they can do a low density element 150mm long by 12.5mm thick (many other sizes available) for 150watts upwards for £14.95 plus nipple fitting for £2.50.
what wattage do you think for a 25L length brew (i intend to increase to 40L sometime in the future)?
they also do pid controllers, an n332 is £ 35, with j or k thermo couples, the k 's are £18. i thought that i would need 2 for aRIMs but their specialist didn't think so based on what i told him (from my very limited knowledge).
any thoughts anybody?
mark
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