Dark lager

[Darren Jeory]

Hi all

Me (AGAIN!) I'm wanting to create a dark lager ala kozel or some of the other great Czech beers.

Some recipes with you to use 50% black malt but this seems like a lot to me...I was thinking of subbing for chocolate malt as you tend to get that chocolatey/caramel after flavour with this style.

Anyone have any experience with this and/or have I got this completely wrong?

Thanks...as always

 

[MrRook]

When you say black malt do you mean black patent?

 

[MickDundee]

I’m not sure where you are finding recipes that are 50% black malt? Do you mean 5%? I would have thought a beer made with 50% black malt would be undrinkable!


I’ve just googled “Kozel Homebrew clone” and the recipes tend to use around 5% Carafa III for colour.

This one uses just under 5% Carafa III
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/389060/kozel-dark-clone
This one uses 6% Carafa III
https://brewgr.com/recipe/90815/kozel-cerny-clone-czech-dark-lager-recipe

 

[Darren Jeory]

Yeah the carafa 3 was in there too in small quantity

 

[Darren Jeory]

Apologies it was dark malt but still seems like a lot

 

[Darren Jeory]

I’m not sure where you are finding recipes that are 50% black malt? Do you mean 5%? I would have thought a beer made with 50% black malt would be undrinkable!


I’ve just googled “Kozel Homebrew clone” and the recipes tend to use around 5% Carafa III for colour.

This one uses just under 5% Carafa III
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/389060/kozel-dark-clone
This one uses 6% Carafa III
https://brewgr.com/recipe/90815/kozel-cerny-clone-czech-dark-lager-recipe

These are awesome...I was looking for a kozel clone...how do you think it would turn out if I use the recommended yeast but did it like a steam beer?

 

[MickDundee]

These are awesome...I was looking for a kozel clone...how do you think it would turn out if I use the recommended yeast but did it like a steam beer?

Some of the lager yeasts do ferment ok and quite clean at room temperature, and I think S23 which those recipes recommend is one, but I’d probably recommend you use an actual Cali Common yeast (M54 or the CML one if you are going dried).

 

[The Baron]

As Mick said Black/Patent malt should be used in small quantities as it will give acrid harsh flavours used in large amounts. it is only there for colour so you have a couple of options 1. use de-bittered Carafe or 2. if you use Black/Patent add it to the top of the mash for the last 5/10 mins in this way you will get the colour with a lot less of the strong flavours that it can produce.

 

[samale]

This is the recipe I plan to use
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/734917/half-dark-pivo

 

[An Ankoù]

I remember Kozel dark lager. I's lovely stuff and it's a proper lager with the typical lager finish. I'd use a lager yeast MJ M84 would be my choice, and do it as cold as you can. @MickDundee 's recipe, above, looks good. But you need to decide whether you want a lager or an ale- and that's going to depend on the fermentation temperature, at least for the first week or so of the fermentation.

 

[chthon]

Seeing as this dark malt is around 16 EBC, it is probably a bit like Munich malt.

 

[Darren Jeory]

I remember Kozel dark lager. I's lovely stuff and it's a proper lager with the typical lager finish. I'd use a lager yeast MJ M84 would be my choice, and do it as cold as you can. @MickDundee 's recipe, above, looks good. But you need to decide whether you want a lager or an ale- and that's going to depend on the fermentation temperature, at least for the first week or so of the fermentation.

Do ya reckon you could use MJ cali and get away with a room temp ferment...not bothered what its called just the flavour

 

[Darren Jeory]

My keezer is probably 3/4 months away so ambient or outside are the two temps I have to work with right now

 

[An Ankoù]

Do ya reckon you could use MJ cali and get away with a room temp ferment...not bothered what its called just the flavour

I'll be honest, I've never used it. I've just looked up the spec, though, and it sounds as if it's going to give you the best compromise. Try it!. I'm going to get some and try it too.

 

[Darren Jeory]

I'm doing a pilsner with it in a week or so then move on to dark lager

 

[MickDundee]

Do ya reckon you could use MJ cali and get away with a room temp ferment...not bothered what its called just the flavour

I’ve only ever used it for California Common, but @Hazelwood Brewery used it for a Czech Lager in the November Comp and it scored well.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’ve only ever used it for California Common, but @Hazelwood Brewery used it for a Czech Lager in the November Comp and it scored well.

It’s the only lager yeast I use now. Easy to use, no off-flavours, conditions quickly. That Czech Pilsner achieved runner-up in the lager competition and was only one week out of the fermenter on judgement day (fermented at 20C). I don’t think I could have achieved that with a cold fermenting strain.

 

[Darren Jeory]

Nice!

 

[Darren Jeory]

Do you need to make a starter for it?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Do you need to make a starter for it?

No, I just sprinkle it dry onto the wort and then beat it in to aerate.