Has my cider gone bad?

[Tony1951]

Hello again. Some of you might remember me before I moved house and stopped brewing. I'm back with a question and I hope not a problem.

I had done about forty some brews of all grain beer and all but one were successful. Not all were great beers, but I pretty much had the technique so I am not a beginner brewer.

Anyhow, I moved house to a cottage in Northumberland and because it was so much smaller than where I lived before, I jacked in brewing. So - I have a neighbour who has access to a lot of apples and he likes a drink. He knew I had been brewing on a hobby basis and he asked me to help him knock out a few litres of cider made from his apples. I got a small press and last month we got started and made two separate brews of unpasturised unsterilised apple juice that we pressed ourselves from barrow loads of apples. We ended up with about 48 litres of cider and we might even do more, because he has more apples in store.

The first brew worked out pretty much like I had expected. 1050 sg apple juice, no sulphites and a nice Canadian yeast LALVIN 71B-1122 that was supposed to reduce acidity (and it did). The first brew is now in the bottles and tastes good and looks good. No sign of any weird bacteria or moulds even though the only hygiene with the apples was to wash them and chuck out any obviously rank ones and then smash them up in a bucket and put the resulting pulp into a press we had bought on ebay, and press the juice out of them.

It is the second brew, done a week later that I am a bit worried about.

Normally with all grain beer which is essentially already completely sterile because it has been boiled for an hour, you put your chosen yeast in, it froths up with all kinds of muck on the top and after about two weeks it has all gone and sunk to the bottom to be left there when the beer is syphoned into the bottling bucket. THAT is how the first brew of the cider went. There was only the slightest sheen on top when I drew it off and put it in the bottling bucket. The second brew has a strange yeast type covering. I spotted it about a week ago at the end of the first two weeks in the brew bin, and skimmed it off. However - it has come back. Here is a photo of what it looks like.

If I skim this stuff off it has a creamy slippery consistency and it looks like yeast. I have smelled ad tasted it and it has no unpleasant characteristics. It is cidery and slightly yeasty. The reason I am suspicious is that the first batch did not develop this crust. Any top growth just sank after the first week and the top stayed clean. This one has been skimmed off and has come back.

So what do I do? I have campden tablets and could kill all the growth of yeasts and anthing else with them. I suppose I could then after an interval for the So2 to dissipate, re-seed it with fresh yeast for developing the fizz in the bottles. I suppose the process could go like:

Campden Tablets.
Wait four days
Make up and pour in yeast starter, stir through the cider and then put in the 5 gms / liter of sugar for bottle fermentation and then bottle the brew.

OR - I could just leave it another week to make up a month of fermentation, and then bottle as it is.........

My worry is that come Christmas time when we crack open the bottles they may all be full of this creamy quatermass yeast thing that is going on.


What do you cider brewers think? (Sorry for the book length post).

 

[Dutto]

ASSUMING that it doesn't have the "vinegar" or "Turkish Wrestlers Jock0strap" smell then:

• IF it's floating on top of the brew "No problem."
• IF it' goes all the way through the brew (like an emulsion paint) then:
  • It hasn't finished fermenting. OR
  • It has finished fermenting and needs time to settle.

In any event, I would just leave it and have a look in another week.

There is no rush to bottle it and every time you take the top off the FV you exposes the brew to more nasties that can affect the finished cider!

 

[Tony1951]

Thanks Dutto.

I've made many an all grain beer and of course that is essentially sterile from the long boil. The cider though was just made of pulped apples some of which came off the ground. I was just a bit worried that the inevitable bugs present in the unsterilised apple juice might bring in something unpleasant. Obviously, at the start of the ferment, I overwhelmed them with my chosen yeast culture, but after that, I can't say there isn't something lurking there. Cider makers have been making their brew this way for a thousand years at least though. Of course, that doesn't mean they were that great does it.

It is clearing in the tub and has a yeasty coat on the top. The first barrel done a week earlier and now bottled had teh same yeast added but didn't do this. Since there is 24 litres of it it would be a shame to lose it. :)

 

[IainM]

Looks like a pellicle you've got there. I had a cider do the same thing on me. The flavour was a little different, a bit funky, but still pleasant enough. It never turned to vinegar. As long as the cider underneath is clean and not 'ropey', I'd bottle it and drink it as normal.

 

[Tony1951]

Thanks Ian.

I will look up 'Pellicle.
There is definitely no vinegar taste or smell and no unpleasant flavours or smells. I tasted the pellicle and it just tastes like yeast and cider.

I originally asked if I should put in some campden tablets and kill everything, and then after an interval for the so2 to disperse, re seed it with a god yeast and then bottle with a little sugar for carbonation.

It doesn't smell or taste bad at all, but I'm not sure I want a strange, unknown yeast thing going on in the bottles .
If the consensus is that this isn't that abnormal and is just an unsterilised cider type thing , I'll just go natural and bottle it next week. :)

Cheers.

 

[IainM]

You'll be fine. Unlike beer, cider ferments dry, so once all the sugar is gone, it's gone and there is nothing left that any bacteria can consume. Once its settled and racked, the flavour only gets better. You should see what some traditional cider makers do. Hygine isn't even in their vocabulary!

 

[Tony1951]

Thanks Ian. I appreciate your input.