Oxi Cleaners - Can they be used for sanitising too?

[UKSkydiver]

A question I've been pondering for a while which this other thread has galvanised me into asking. Please read the blog / article I cite below before responding so that you can see the source of my query.

I have been using Harris SureSan since I started brewing about 18 months ago. It's all I use and I've been using it as described without any infection (as far as I know) It does appear to have the same ingredient (soduim percarbonate) as the Oxi cleaners.

Separately, I also use Wilko Oxi stuff for soaking (as part of the cleaning step). This also has the same active ingredient.

Josh Weikert, who I belive is a respected brewer and writer, talks about a product called One Step {LINK HERE} in an old blog entry of his {LINK HERE} and his assertion is that using this product you don't need to 'sanitise' with a separate product (it's quite a good read)

So, notwithstanding any differences in the make up of the products (which actually might be really, really fundamental), if one were to clean with an Oxi type product, and bearing in mind that Harris SureSan appears to contain the exact same active ingredient, and taking into consideration the Josh Weikert's view, is it possible to just use an Oxi cleaner and that would be sufficient to clean and sanitise?

Surely I am already using a sodium percarbonate based product to sanitise.

Cheers

Other references:
One Step EU data sheet One Step EU SDS (ecologiccleansers.com)
Harris SureSan data sheet Suresan-MSDS.pdf (harrishomecraft.com)

 

[chthon]

I actually do not understand why they are called "Oxi cleaners". Cleaning should be done after brewing, sanitizing before you perform cold side actions like racking and bottling.

The reason I say it like this is that I started with a small kit, where Oxi was included, and that was the only thing that was needed. Before preparing the wort from the kit, the fermentation bucket had to be soaked for 15 minutes with the Oxi solution. That is not for cleaning, that is for sanitizing.

The designation "oxi" is used to designate that the solution generates free oxygen, which in this state (like hydrogen peroxide) can oxidate organic tissues, and thus has a sanitizing working.

Cleaning is removing dirty bits. That is done after mashing, boiling, bottling and drinking. Cleaners are soap, lye, special acid solutions, enzymatic solutions to remove proteins, etc...

 

[MmmBeer]

The usual practice for commercial breweries is an alkali detergent (usually a hot caustic soda solution like antiformin) to remove soil (clean), followed by a rinse and then an acid sanitiser like peracetic acid. Acid solutions are occasionaly also used to remove scale.

As homebrewers we use safer, less agressive chemicals such as sodium percarbonate to clean, followed by a rinse and Starsan / Chemsan to sanitise.

In their own way, both sodium percarbonate and starsan kill microorganisms and leave a sanitary surface, the unsanitary substance we use is tap water. So in theory you could use a properly formulated sodium percarbonate based cleaner as a no rinse cleaner/sanitiser. For my first few kit brews I used Wilko Bruclens, which is a no rinse Sodium peroxide based no rinse cleaner/sanitiser.

However certain oxi products, leave a white powdery deposit behind, which I could not want in my beer. I have now switched to pure sodium percarbonate which leaves no deposits, so maybe I'll experiment with no rinse, it could sure save some time on bottling day, leave say 5 marked bottles unrinsed and un-starsanned.

 

[Galena]

However certain oxi products, leave a white powdery deposit behind, which I could not want in my beer. I have now switched to pure sodium percarbonate which leaves no deposits, so maybe I'll experiment with no rinse, it could sure save some time on bottling day, leave say 5 marked bottles unrinsed and un-starsanned.

What is the source of your pure sodium percarbonate please?

 

[MmmBeer]

What is the source of your pure sodium percarbonate please?

I bought it through ebay, from a supplier called Ellcon. Another member has had an issue with Ellcon, there are other suppliers on there.

 

[Galena]

I bought it through ebay, from a supplier called Ellcon. Another member has had an issue with Ellcon, there are other suppliers on there.

Cheers, I did find THIS recently

 

[Hoppyland]

However certain oxi products, leave a white powdery deposit behind, which I could not want in my beer. I have now switched to pure sodium percarbonate which leaves no deposits, so maybe I'll experiment with no rinse,

As far as I'm aware, pure sodium percarbonate releases oxygen (via hydrogen peroxide), leaving a residue of mildly alkaline sodium carbonate (aka washing soda). This would indeed leave a white deposit after the water evaporated, and I reckon I'd prefer to rinse rather than have it in my beer - although I guess small amounts would have little or no effect.

 

[Hop_it]

Cheers, I did find THIS recently

I bought 4kg on eBay in December last year from these guys:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16439674...iseUnbiasedWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851
The service was excellent and the product is well packaged in 1kg plastic bottles. The price has gone up since I bought it, but I would happily buy from them again