PM calls for bully XL ban as man killed in dog attack

[welly3]

The PM has ordered urgent work to ban American bully XL dogs in light of the recent spate of attacks, including a fatal attack on Thursday.
A man was left in a critical condition after being attacked by two dogs in Stonnall, near Walsall.
He was taken to Birmingham's Queen Elizabeth Hospital but was confirmed dead, emergency services said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795
Hopefully a ban will go through the house without any problems.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Sadly this all comes about because of fashion. XL Bullys are being bred without any care because they can be sold for a few hundred to a few thousand pounds for a puppy, and people are willing to buy them because of the name.

In reality the buyer has no idea what they're getting and has no way of checking.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I was listening to the debate about this on 5 live today and it turns out its just another knee jerk reaction that will not make a blind bit of difference as the Bully XL is not a breed so there is no way they can police it.

It was suggested that instead of trying to ban all dangerous breeds they should instead bring in a law saying all dogs must be muzzled and on a lead when in public.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Man killed in Stonnall 'American bully XL' attack named​

A man who died after suffering multiple injuries in an attack by two suspected American bully XLs has been named as Ian Price.
He was left in a critical condition after being attacked by the dogs in Stonnall, near Walsall, Staffordshire.
The 52-year-old was taken to Birmingham's Queen Elizabeth Hospital but was later confirmed dead.
A man, 30, from Lichfield has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter, said Staffordshire Police.
He had initially been arrested on suspicion of being in charge of dogs dangerously out of control, causing injury.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has pledged to ban American XL bully dogs, describing them as a "danger to communities".
Police said it was understood the dogs were XL bullies, but further tests were being carried out to determine their breed.
One of the dogs died after being restrained and the other died after an injection was given by a vet, police said.

The attack happened in Main Street at about 15:15 BST on Thursday, police said.
Members of the public tried to help the victim and attempted to get the dogs off him.
Meanwhile, children at nearby St Peter's Primary Academy were stopped from leaving for several hours for safety reasons.

Zoe Heath, director of operations at St Chads Academy Trust, which runs the school, said children had been allowed out of the grounds at 18:00 BST.
"The children were let out of school at 3.15 to parents as is normal. We were notified at 3.25 by police that there had been incident on Main Street.
"A text was sent to parents to bring children back to school and gates were closed until we were notified later on in the day," she said.
One of the dogs was captured outside, while the other was contained in the owner's flat.

One resident, who wished to remain anonymous, said in March a woman and her dog had been seen being chased into a shop by the same two dogs which had killed Mr Price.
"It was carnage - the two dogs were after her dog," they said, "I think they had taken a few nips at him.
"The woman was hysterical but she was unhurt."
The resident said police had been called to the incident, which also saw customers jumping over the shop's counter for protection, and the dogs' owner had been given a caution.
Another resident, David Morrell, said: "This morning, to find out that two dogs have attacked a guy in the street is just totally shocking."

A West Midlands Ambulance Service spokesman said: "Upon arrival we found a man who had sustained multiple life-threatening injuries and was in a critical condition.
"Unfortunately, after arrival at hospital, despite the best efforts it became clear that nothing more could be done to save him and he was confirmed as deceased."
Supt Tracy Meir, of Staffordshire Police, said the victim's family was being supported.
"Detectives continue to investigate and we have taken statements, viewed CCTV and carried out house-to-house inquiries in the local area, but are keen to speak to anyone with information," she said.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has said American bully XL dogs will be banned by the end of the year, after work was done to define the breed.
He said he "shares the nation's horror" regarding videos of recent dog attacks, including Thursday's incident which "tragically led to a fatality".
A recent dog attack on an 11-year-old girl in Birmingham sparked the debate about banning certain dog breeds.

The girl and two men were set upon by an American bully XL outside shops in Bordesley Green on 9 September.
Ana Paun, 11, said she had started to run after seeing a dog staring at her when it grabbed her hand and started moving her about.
However, the Dog Control Coalition, a group including RSPCA, Battersea Dogs Home and the Royal Kennel Club, said banning specific breeds was not the solution - pointing to "irresponsible breeding, rearing and ownership".
BBC Verify reported that 10 people died because of dog bite injuries in England and Wales last year.
Last year, there were nearly 22,000 cases of out-of-control dogs causing injury. In 2018, there were just over 16,000, a BBC investigation found.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66817795

 

[JockyBrewer]

I was listening to the debate about this on 5 live today and it turns out its just another knee jerk reaction that will not make a blind bit of difference as the Bully XL is not a breed so there is no way they can police it.

I was going to say the same thing in my original reply - they're still a cross breed, and I don't think there's a genetic marker that identifies them. Originally they were bred from American Pitbull Terriers, which are illegal as a breed or cross breed in the UK, so I don't know how they've got past that.

But the government can't sit on their hands and do nothing. A dog behaviourist friend of mine has been bitten by multiple dogs in the line of their work, but carries on because they love dogs and know that most of them have just been badly trained or had traumatic experiences. They won't go near an XL Bully though.

Ultimately the law is imperfect, but it's better to have some legislation than none.

 

[Druss]

It's definitely high time something was done, I've been ranting about this issue for years to anybody who'll listen. My area is swarming with these kinds of dogs and attacks are frequent. The old "it's not the dog, it's the owner" nonsense gets trotted out ad nauseum, these monsters certainly tend to have a similar type of owner but the fact of the matter is, they're killing machines.

Unfortunately, breed specific legislation is a bit of a joke, the amount of times I've seen the ne'er-do-wells of my neighbourhood out and about with their (obviously for anyone with an iota of common sense) American pitbulls, only to harp on about the fact that "they're not pitbulls, they're staffies". Hmm, certainly not but the law is just murky enough that nothing gets done.

Muzzling every dog in a public place really seems like a no brainer, yes there will be some people who whinge about it but it will definitely save lives. Whichever politician puts that forward though will be very unpopular on the whole, likely why it will never be seriously suggested.

 

[The Baron]

I was listening to the debate about this on 5 live today and it turns out its just another knee jerk reaction that will not make a blind bit of difference as the Bully XL is not a breed so there is no way they can police it.

It was suggested that instead of trying to ban all dangerous breeds they should instead bring in a law saying all dogs must be muzzled and on a lead when in public.

I do agree with the muzzling of all dogs but it will not stop the child attacks in the home which we seem to get a high proportion of.

 

[The Baron]

It's definitely high time something was done, I've been ranting about this issue for years to anybody who'll listen. My area is swarming with these kinds of dogs and attacks are frequent. The old "it's not the dog, it's the owner" nonsense gets trotted out ad nauseum, these monsters certainly tend to have a similar type of owner but the fact of the matter is, they're killing machines.

Unfortunately, breed specific legislation is a bit of a joke, the amount of times I've seen the ne'er-do-wells of my neighbourhood out and about with their (obviously for anyone with an iota of common sense) American pitbulls, only to harp on about the fact that "they're not pitbulls, they're staffies". Hmm, certainly not but the law is just murky enough that nothing gets done.

Muzzling every dog in a public place really seems like a no brainer, yes there will be some people who whinge about it but it will definitely save lives. Whichever politician puts that forward though will be very unpopular on the whole, likely why it will never be seriously suggested.

I thought that in the past they had done DNA testing to determine if they were pitbull dogs? when involved in incidents

 

[Druss]

I thought that in the past they had done DNA testing to determine if they were pitbull dogs? when involved in incidents

As far as I know that is still the case, but owning an American pitbull is illegal in the UK just as it will soon be illegal to own a bully XL. it doesn't need to maul anyone to be against the law. The problem is discerning breed in the first place.

It seems like too much paperwork perhaps? It's rare to see an actual police officer where I live, the occasional PCSO, but that's about it. On the odd occasion I've been out and about taking my youngest to the park and spotted such dogs running around off lead and unmuzzled we usually just steer well clear, twice I've seen a PCSO nearby and pointed out an obviously banned breed on the loose only to be met with a disinterested shrug.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Muzzling every dog in a public place really seems like a no brainer, yes there will be some people who whinge about it but it will definitely save lives. Whichever politician puts that forward though will be very unpopular on the whole, likely why it will never be seriously suggested.

Spot on, its the only way to stop these attacks someone is going to have to take the first step, it will be unpopular with dog owners but probably not with non dog owners.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

How many people die because of dog bites?​

By Lucy Gilder, BBC Verify

• Hospital admissions for dog bites have gradually increased over the past 15 years
• In 2022, there were 8,819 admissions to hospital in England with dog bites, compared with 4,699 in 2007
• Ten people in England and Wales died because of dog bite injuries in 2022
• Four dog breeds are banned in the UK: Pit Bull Terriers, Japanese Tosas, Dogo Argentinos and Fila Brasileiros
• Dogs that share physical characteristics to banned breeds - such as cross breeds - are also banned
• Owning a banned dog can result in an unlimited fine and a prison sentence of up to six months
• In 2022, there were 482 sentences given to owners of dangerously out of control dogs which resulted in an injury to a person in public

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Prof Middlemiss told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "There will be an amnesty. So people that already have these dogs - and some of them will be well socialised, well managed, well trained - you will need to register and take certain actions.
"Your dog will need to be neutered. It will need to be muzzled when out in public and on a lead and insured.
"But if you comply with these actions, and that means we'll know where these dogs are, which will be a massive benefit, then yes, absolutely you will be able to keep your dog."
Mr Sunak said on Friday that the dogs were "a danger to our communities" and would be banned by the end of the year.
But environment minister Mark Spencer, whose department has responsibility for adding dogs to the banned list, said it will "take a while" to ban the dogs.
"We're going to have to go through the process of identifying the characteristics of that dog, of that type of dog, and make sure that we don't encapsulate the wrong sort of dog in that process," he told BBC Radio 4's Any Questions?.
"So it's going to take a while, but we are, you know, we're committed to doing it.
"And we'll try and get that that balance right between getting rid of those nasty dogs with the horrible characteristics, but protecting people's pets."

Full article - American bully XLs will not be culled under ban, says chief vet

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Its ok saying "I've never had any issues with my dog," the problem is the moment you do with a dog that size its too late.

​

'I trust my American bully XL around my baby daughter'​

Ms Wood said her three-year-old bully XL was gentle and good-natured.
"I've never had any issues with my dog," she said.
"I have a nine-month-old daughter and when I fell pregnant he was always lying on my bump and protecting me.

She said: "What gives them the right to say that that entire breed of dog is dangerous?
"If someone was to go out and murder someone, we don't all get judged by that.

"Some dogs have obviously not had the correct training and think it's acceptable to act that way, but the dogs that have had the correct training are being branded with this.
"It's how they're brought up and it's how they're treated, it's the environment they're in.
"It's the owner that makes the dog - it's not the dog."

Jayne Dendle, from Save Our Seized Dogs, said a ban would not solve the problem and urged action against irresponsible owners.
She lost her friend and colleague Adam Watts, who ran a kennel in Auchterhouse, after he was mauled to death by a bully cross breed.
"That was a dog that had already been seized from the owner and placed with Adam while the owner was involved in a court case," she said.
"That dog had its ears cropped, it was owned by a drug dealer, so you can imagine the kind life that dog had had.
"As a result of that life, he just could not be rehabilitated and if anyone could've done it Adam could've done it."

Full article - 'I trust my American bully XL around my baby daughter'

 

[The Baron]

How many times have we heard "It was a family pet and never had a problem before"
Or in the playing fields running towards kids playing with a ball etc - obviously the owner in full control of the dog 30 Yard away shouting "it will not hurt you" but these are the owners who say they are responsible usually on the lead until they get to the play fields etc then let them run only to find kids in the distance playing.
Dogs run after balls as that is what most owners throw for them so they see a ball that kids are playing with and are oblivious to their owners shouts to stop. Even if they do not bite they run and knock down the kids traumatising them for life.
Now I know many members are dog owners but hand on heart how many can honestly say they keep their dogs on leads all the time as required in many local bylaws

 

[Druss]

Lots of sound bites from those in power needing to be seen to do something about the ever increasing random maulings.

Reading between the lines, the admission of "oh well, nothing can really be done" is all too clear. Meanwhile, reports of owners abandoning these dogs in fear of the upcoming (if it ever really happens) ban, are on the rise.
If we follow these actions to their logical conclusions, it's only a matter of time before we have roving packs of abandoned, feral, bully xl's on the streets.

It's like we're taking a step back a couple of dozen millennia where the risk of getting picked off by a predator while out and about was simply a way of life.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

How many times have we heard "It was a family pet and never had a problem before"
Or in the playing fields running towards kids playing with a ball etc - obviously the owner in full control of the dog 30 Yard away shouting "it will not hurt you" but these are the owners who say they are responsible usually on the lead until they get to the play fields etc then let them run only to find kids in the distance playing.
Dogs run after balls as that is what most owners throw for them so they see a ball that kids are playing with and are oblivious to their owners shouts to stop. Even if they do not bite they run and knock down the kids traumatising them for life.
Now I know many members are dog owners but hand on heart how many can honestly say they keep their dogs on leads all the time as required in many local bylaws

Yes exactly, I've seen someone bitten before by a dog whose owner was shouting exactly that and then blamed the person who was bitten for running away!

 

[The Baron]

Majority of the time Pilgrim it is the owner who most believe they are responsible owners but I'll bet hardly any can tell you exactly where a dog should have a lead on and how short it. should be in their local area.
Most councils have PSPO's and local bye-laws and it is up to the owners to find out where these are in place just because there is no sign does not mean you can let your dog off the lead, the highway code says dogs should be on a lead on any public walkway i.e pavements or any path for cyclist or horses which also covers quite a few countryside areas too .
Most sports fields have them and that's were most owners let their dogs loose. These fields are for playing sport and for children and adults to practice not dog compounds or runs.
I bet if most owners really looked and found out where they can exercise their dogs before buying one some would think twice.
Before I get lambasted for my posts I am not anti dog as I was brought up with dogs but the dogs I was brought up with were trained to very high standards as they were guns dogs and it is a sight to see owners that spend so much time on these dogs as they are how a dog should be trained.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

Majority of the time Pilgrim it is the owner who most believe they are responsible owners but I'll bet hardly any can tell you exactly where a dog should have a lead on and how short it. should be in their local area.
Most councils have PSPO's and local bye-laws and it is up to the owners to find out where these are in place just because there is no sign does not mean you can let your dog off the lead, the highway code says dogs should be on a lead on any public walkway i.e pavements or any path for cyclist or horses which also covers quite a few countryside areas too .
Most sports fields have them and that's were most owners let their dogs loose. These fields are for playing sport and for children and adults to practice not dog compounds or runs.
I bet if most owners really looked and found out where they can exercise their dogs before buying one some would think twice.
Before I get lambasted for my posts I am not anti dog as I was brought up with dogs but the dogs I was brought up with were trained to very high standards as they were guns dogs and it is a sight to see owners that spend so much time on these dogs as they are how a dog should be trained.

Dunno why you'd be lambasted for that, seems pretty sensible to me.

My eldest is 8, she's only just getting over being scared to death a dog that jumped up at her and knocked her over when she was 5 on the beach. Now I could see that the dog was being friendly but it scared her, and she hated anywhere where dogs were left to run for years. If you have a dog you have to be responsible for it.

That includes picking up its turd.

 

[The Baron]

The reason I said that Pilgrim is some pet owners think more of animals that humans which I find very hard to understand, they literally treat them like humans and become irrational if anybody dare say anything they do not agree with re their pets

 

[Chippy_Tea]

They should also ban the use of retractable leads when dog walking in built up areas you have no control over your dog if its 20 feet away on a piece of string, they are fine for the countryside and parks where you can keep away from other people.