Pressure Fermenting pressure Notes and guide

[Frisp]

Folks, I currently have a Pilsner sat in a King keg 18C @12-13psi and im looking forward to the unveiling..
Im liking the self contained, no Oxygen thing with these pressure vessels and can see me continuing to use them.

Im a lager, stout and 60 shilling kinda drinker and have looked high and low for good solid pressure setting advice for ales and stouts and can only find one reference that points to 6-8psi for a stout, there are plenty of folk posting on ewetoob and blogs re lager under pressure but not a lot on any other style

Even these lager posts dont offer any solid guidance as they range from 10psi to 60psi with temp ranges that seem to run form 15C to a blistering 40C.

This doesnt help anyone who wants to try pressure fermenting.

Im starting this thread in the hope that members who pressure ferment can post their data so we all can reference it further down the line
Im going to make a start as I have my pilsner already cooking. I will come back and edit the post to add info as the brew develops.
(TBA = To Be Added)

Frisps extract pilsner
yeast : novalager
OG 1.040
FG: 1.008
Fermentation Time : 36 hrs to start from pitching then 5 days fermenting befre it stopped at 1.008
Pressure setting 12-13 psi
Ferment temp: initialy 17C had a heat pad malfunction and it dropped to 15C on day 3 raied temp to 18C to ferment out.
General ferment observations :
Tasting notes: at FG slightly lagery aroma, slightly sweet tasting. light in colour but cloudy
Things I Would change next time:

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Why do you want to pressure ferment ales and stouts?

 

[Frisp]

Why do you want to pressure ferment ales and stouts?

Why Not ! Maybe because I or others may want to try.
Your missing the point of this thread.
When folk encounter Pressure fermenting the guidance out there is wild.. collectivley logging our pressure fermenting experiences may help someone someday.

I only have a pressure fermenter. What will the real life result of doing an irish stout at low pressure? what happenes to a bitter kit when you put it on at 10PSi?
If the results are rank , or equally if they are sublime, if its recorded then it may well become an experiential shortcut for someone.

 

[Sadfield]

If you haven't already, I highly recommend watching this.





...and view the data in the spreadsheet.

Http://beersmith.com/download/PressureFerm.xlsx

It may answer some of your questions.

I feel that most of the numbers for PSI you've already quoted are too excessive, based on the above. The collective data set proposed might only lead to more of the same.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

So no answer as to why you want to pressure ferment an ale or stout.
I'd recommend you leave the lid off your fermenter until about 5 gravity points off final. Then seal it and spund it to your final pressure and CO2 vols.

 

[Frisp]

Folks I was trying to do a good thing but clearly I have missed the mark with the original post. and need a rethink

I feel that most of the numbers for PSI you've already quoted are too excessive

Your correct they are wild but what I was saying is the information out there is wild and is sometimes inaccurate, and these are examples of that.
Thanks thanks for the video but its a perfect example of what I am trying to say.

I tried to watch it many times, and for me personally, I got nothing useful from that specific video, 5 minutes in and they are still on the introductions and mutual admiration, Im starting to switch off, 10 minutes in they are dragging it out, mainly in a language that newbies aint gonna grasp, two minutes later Its become background noise and I lost the will to live, and I wont be alone

What I was trying to adress is others may be looking for real life examples to help answer questions, so why not log our real life tryumphs and disasters around pressure

e.g. I have an irish stout planned which I was going to split ferment half at atmorphere with a bubbler and half at 5 PSI and see what the real life result is. Then report it on here

As my original post has not been clear enough in its intent, Im going to mull things over a few days and see if I can come at this a different way to do this and maybe get admin to remove this thread as its lost its way

 

[foxy]

Folks I was trying to do a good thing but clearly I have missed the mark with the original post. and need a rethink

Your correct they are wild but what I was saying is the information out there is wild and is sometimes inaccurate, and these are examples of that.
Thanks thanks for the video but its a perfect example of what I am trying to say.

I tried to watch it many times, and for me personally, I got nothing useful from that specific video, 5 minutes in and they are still on the introductions and mutual admiration, Im starting to switch off, 10 minutes in they are dragging it out, mainly in a language that newbies aint gonna grasp, two minutes later Its become background noise and I lost the will to live, and I wont be alone

What I was trying to adress is others may be looking for real life examples to help answer questions, so why not log our real life tryumphs and disasters around pressure

e.g. I have an irish stout planned which I was going to split ferment half at atmorphere with a bubbler and half at 5 PSI and see what the real life result is. Then report it on here

As my original post has not been clear enough in its intent, Im going to mull things over a few days and see if I can come at this a different way to do this and maybe get admin to remove this thread as its lost its way

The best part of that video is when Chris White says he wishes someone would come up with an open fermenter about the 46 minute mark.

 

[Sadfield]

The best part of that video is when Chris White says he wishes someone would come up with an open fermenter about the 46 minute mark.

I can do you one for under £50 US$500. I just need to make a Blichmann badge.

 

[Sadfield]

The best part of that video is when Chris White says he wishes someone would come up with an open fermenter about the 46 minute mark.

I can do you one for under £50 US$500. I just need to make a Blichmann badge.

 

[Sadfield]

I get what you are asking, I'm just saying you are unlikely to get any useful data. It's all guesswork.

You've approached if from the wrong end by asking how should I be setting my pressure fermenter? The question should be, what am I trying to achieve? What equipment and technique do I need to employ? Do I even need a pressure fermenter?

Better questions will return better answers.

For example..

Tasting notes: at FG slightly lagery aroma, slightly sweet tasting. light in colour but cloudy

Do I want more or less lagery aroma next time? What is lagery aroma? How does pressure relate to this?

 

[Gax]

Gotta be really careful with people on hobby forums. There's always gonna be a subset that gets uppity when a newbie wants to just do stuff to figure out what happens. "We've already figured it out" they cry, gatekeeping the joy of discovery. "Just do what we say"
I think a healthy amount of experimentation is really important along with having advice and guidance. I've got a pressure setup coming soon and I'd be happy to post my experiment results.

Folks I was trying to do a good thing but clearly I have missed the mark with the original post. and need a rethink

Your correct they are wild but what I was saying is the information out there is wild and is sometimes inaccurate, and these are examples of that.
Thanks thanks for the video but its a perfect example of what I am trying to say.

I tried to watch it many times, and for me personally, I got nothing useful from that specific video, 5 minutes in and they are still on the introductions and mutual admiration, Im starting to switch off, 10 minutes in they are dragging it out, mainly in a language that newbies aint gonna grasp, two minutes later Its become background noise and I lost the will to live, and I wont be alone

What I was trying to adress is others may be looking for real life examples to help answer questions, so why not log our real life tryumphs and disasters around pressure

e.g. I have an irish stout planned which I was going to split ferment half at atmorphere with a bubbler and half at 5 PSI and see what the real life result is. Then report it on here

As my original post has not been clear enough in its intent, Im going to mull things over a few days and see if I can come at this a different way to do this and maybe get admin to remove this thread as its lost its way

 

[foxy]

Gotta be really careful with people on hobby forums. There's always gonna be a subset that gets uppity when a newbie wants to just do stuff to figure out what happens. "We've already figured it out" they cry, gatekeeping the joy of discovery. "Just do what we say"
I think a healthy amount of experimentation is really important along with having advice and guidance. I've got a pressure setup coming soon and I'd be happy to post my experiment results.

No need to. Gordon Strong sums it up nicely in the latest BYO. Pressure-fermented lager is as rough as guts. I think he is the only man walking this earth who has the expertise to claim that.

 

[Sadfield]

There's always gonna be a subset that gets uppity when a newbie wants to just do stuff to figure out what happens. "We've already figured it out" they cry, gatekeeping the joy of discovery. "Just do what we say"

Theyre probably also the subset that continually respond to cries for help from the subset that never researches anything before embarking on a voyage of discovery.

Merely trying to encourage asking yourselves the right questions to point that voyage of discovery in the right direction. Blindly setting sail one direction in the dark of the night will likely lead to crashing on rocks. Sometimes lighthouses, the stars and charts are useful to point the way.

When you mash in, you do it in a temperature range based on science and accrued knowledge, yes? Then why should fermentation pressure be different?

 

[Sadfield]

There's always gonna be a subset that gets uppity when a newbie wants to just do stuff to figure out what happens. "We've already figured it out" they cry, gatekeeping the joy of discovery. "Just do what we say"

They're probably also the subset that continually respond to cries for help from the subset that never researches anything before embarking on a voyage of discovery.

Merely trying to encourage asking yourselves the right questions to point that voyage of discovery in the right direction. Blindly setting sail one direction in the dark of the night will likely lead to crashing on rocks. Sometimes lighthouses, the stars and charts are useful to point the way.

When you mash in, you do it in a temperature range based on science accrued knowledge, yes? Then why should fermentation pressure be different?

There's a fundamental flaw with the question being asked. Wanting to expand the same data set that it states is 'wild' and 'unhelpful'. A data set that can be obtained by using the forum search function. But, we're back to the aforementioned subset that doesn't like to research.

 

[Gax]

Seems to me like op did as much research that could be expected. Info about pressure fermenting is wild and inconsistent, to someone actually looking to engage with it and not be dismissive and laugh at it. I don't think anyone here would say something to the effect of classic methods are bad. That's patently untrue. Some of us just wanna try new stuff.
In my industry, as an example, you have people and restaurants like Thomas Keller and Grant Achetz pushing the cooking world forward by trying new stuff.
Just let people try stuff. Ignore it if you don't want to contribute.
Cheers.

 

[Sadfield]

With sufficient research you'll discover pressure fermenting isn't new. Even in the 6 year old video above Dr Chris White says he advised a brewery on doing it in the late 90's. A video that gives advice on pressure fermenting, so I'm not sure who is being dismissive and laughing. There's plenty of useful information out there, on YouTube, in scientific papers, brewers blogs, etc.

Thread isn't really about experimenting, as that can be done independently from the forum, it's wanting to be told the right answer. There isn't one, hence the inconsistency, it dependent on situation, objective and knowledge.

 

[Spratt]

Why Not ! Maybe because I or others may want to try.
Your missing the point of this thread.
When folk encounter Pressure fermenting the guidance out there is wild.. collectively logging our pressure fermenting experiences may help someone someday.

I only have a pressure fermenter. What will the real life result of doing an irish stout at low pressure? what happens to a bitter kit when you put it on at 10PSi?
If the results are rank , or equally if they are sublime, if its recorded then it may well become an experiential shortcut for someone.

I'm probably not much help with your enquiry but your post struck a chord with me. At my previous house I ending up using two Fermzilla all-rounders as it was the easiest way to cope with my brew shed which was an old Tin Tabernacle probably built in the early part of the last century. The roof leaked and was constantly shedding crud and mice were ubiquitous. A closed system was useful in these circumstances and though I usually brewed English bitters, stouts, Oktoberfests and those sorts of things it was useful when I did a NEIPA to know that no O2 was able to get into the brew.

For my "European" style brews I stuck with a pretty cautious regime of standard temperatures appropriate to the yeast and around 12psi on the spunding valve. Hence my opening comment of being no help to you, but I like the idea of what you're trying to achieve. I haven't done a brew since last June before I moved but I'm hoping to get a new brewshed built at my new home by the summer and will start brewing again then. If I'm feeling bold I'll try some variations on my old standard practice and let you know how I get on.

 

[Gax]

Of course it isn't. That's not really the point here, it's new -to the op- so encourage and direct rather than dismiss and censure.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Sometimes people learn better by doing themselves than being told what to do, in life or death situations being told a correct way to do stuff is better than incurring death and injury by figuring it out.

For brewing generally the biggest risk is having to tip a brew, you could poison or burn yourself I suppose. Amongst self learning may come an insight yet missed by the established order.

I did this to see what it would be like.......

24/10/2022 - brew 77 - white cap --He-brew 22
3 litres asda orange juice concentrate smooth
20.5 treated dumped 3 = 17.5
5 litres for boil = 12.5
3kg extra light dme
500g light moskovado sugar
mj cider yeast
10 mins 100g citra boil and 20 mins flameout added sugar at fo.
og 1.067 - fg 1.017

Had I come across this before - No
Why not? - Seems a bit too weird to do.

And then about 6 months later I drank something that tasted just like this from a brewery.

They could have been reading forums looking for new and whacky styles and copied the recipe or randomly threw the same sort of stuff to the wall to see what sticks.

If it was the former they could at least have sent one of theirs in the post as a nod.

I liked the result a lot might re-brew it. It felt weird tasting something off the wall I did but that came from a brewery though. I didn't buy another because I had a shedful of the same beer at the time Mine was substantially cheap I might add.

 

[Sadfield]

Of course it isn't. That's not really the point here, it's new -to the op- so encourage and direct rather than dismiss and censure.

Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.

The OP clearly just wants the fish, by dismissing the first question they were asked, a valid question. And then a very informative video from an expert in fermentation. Leaving the thread in a huff. Can't help people who don't want to help themselves.

If the anecdotal information out there is too wild and varied, how will getting more of it help?