The downfall of the Tory party.

[old dog new tricks]

Means testing always seems to be one of those things that makes complete sense but then you inevitably find huge loopholes, and the whole cost of administering the scheme ends up costing a large chunk of the money you avoid paying out.

As people get older they supposedly get more conservative. I'm getting more and more in favour of a universal basic income.

Yes I was told about the universal income some years ago as part of a course on digitisation and automation and the effects on employment for the next generation.

We have not yet reached the high level of automation that renders many redundant, but the concept of a universal income with no form of benefits system to administer does have many benefits and reduces wasted money on bureaucracy. This would only work when coupled with substantial levels of taxation put simply if you earn more you pay more but crucially you will never be worse off for working, and that kind of incentive may restore faith in the system.

Think on savings if we did not have to administer all forms of benefit for example

 

[Rodcx500z]

Until the day somebody in government grows a pair and makes it so not working if you can is a lot less attractive than working, the good honest hard working people of this country are being shafted left right and centre by lazy feckers who take great delight in manipulating the system, included in these benefits is a free ni stamp towards their state pension they should buy it out of their benefits, the best thing to do is scrap the state pension apart from the genuine people who can't work, this will never happen as it would be unpopular no government would risk it

 

[Rodcx500z]

I also am coming round to the universal basic income thing. but those who want to work can and top the basic income up but with tax involved

 

[old dog new tricks]

Until the day somebody in government grows a pair and makes it so not working if you can is a lot less attractive than working, the good honest hard working people of this country are being shafted left right and centre by lazy feckers who take great delight in manipulating the system, included in these benefits is a free ni stamp towards their state pension they should buy it out of their benefits, the best thing to do is scrap the state pension apart from the genuine people who can't work, this will never happen as it would be unpopular no government would risk it

I agree, but also agree there needs to be a grown up discussion on state pensions, BUT what is not just or fair is to change a system that people have paid into, there would need to be a new system and tapering out, same thing happened with civil service pensions ended up in the courts, the same argument was applied and accepted that you can not take benefits away when members have already made contributions.

I am not sure what the answer is but when you look at some of the private pensions just now they are a joke the paltry sums will never provide a decent income in retirement, if the state pension is removed generation will face poverty or have to work until they die

 

[Stu]

I am not sure what the answer is but when you look at some of the private pensions just now they are a joke the paltry sums will never provide a decent income in retirement, if the state pension is removed generation will face poverty or have to work until they die

Thank you. That's a better way of saying what I was trying to.

At this stage, my private pensions + state pension will be less than minimum wage and I'll have worked and paid in for 49 years when that happens.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I am not sure what the answer is but when you look at some of the private pensions just now they are a joke the paltry sums will never provide a decent income in retirement, if the state pension is removed generation will face poverty or have to work until they die

What do you mean by 'private pensions'? Defined benefit pension schemes that are on their way to failing or something else?

 

[old dog new tricks]

What do you mean by 'private pensions'? Defined benefit pension schemes that are on their way to failing or something else?

anything other than state pension I meant.

Seen some works pensions that meet the current legislation in terms or auto enrolment etc but the contribution rates and forecast pensions are not fit for purpose and will not provide suitable income in later life.

This is a huge problem, I would say there needs to be a minimum contribution as percentage of income and at pension age any deficit made up by means off top up or state pension to meet a minimum living wage or some system to this effect

 

[JockyBrewer]

anything other than state pension I meant.

Seen some works pensions that meet the current legislation in terms or auto enrolment etc but the contribution rates and forecast pensions are not fit for purpose and will not provide suitable income in later life.

This is a huge problem, I would say there needs to be a minimum contribution as percentage of income and at pension age any deficit made up by means off top up or state pension to meet a minimum living wage or some system to this effect

People without pensions is certainly a huge problem, and pension auto enrolment is something I'm willing to give some credit to the Tories for.

The 8% minimum (3% from employer) isn't enough, but it's a lot better than nothing. State mandated saving also feels like it would be anathema to Conservatives, so I'm surprised they got it that high.

 

[JockyBrewer]

Please can everyone just ignore that Sky projection, it's utterly meaningless and should be ignored, it's not worth wasting time on.

It's based on England only so assumes no change in Scotland/Wales over 2019 (in reality Labour will take a bunch of seats off the SNP), and it assumes people vote the same way in local elections as they do for Westminster. That's plainly not true - to take one example, the Tories got 39.2% in the local elections last year in the wards that make up the Blackpool South constituency, but only 17.5% in the by election this week.

Anyway, Salford has declared at last so the final scores on the doors are :
View attachment 99112

This was before the Salford declaration but Salford was already Labour controlled and they picked up one seat from the Tories, so the change is the same, the council total becomes 51:
View attachment 99113

Poll-Daddy Sir John Curtice breaks down the local results in this video, which is also available as a podcast:




One of the factors to think about is that Reform didn't stand in most of the local elections, and they will almost exclusively gain their votes from previously Conservative voters.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I am not sure what the answer is but when you look at some of the private pensions just now they are a joke the paltry sums will never provide a decent income in retirement, if the state pension is removed generation will face poverty or have to work until they die

Well if nowt changes you will work till you die anyway, something has to change, at a guess i would say money that should be invested in pensions is being spent else where but thats a conversation for another day

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I assume you are talking UK figures I am not up to speed i was talking about Scotland only, where the cost for land based systems is reducing.

All of the UK onshore wind projects are in Scotland, and 2 out of 5 offshore ones. Yes onshore has come down a lot, but the price per kWh of offshore has absolutely crashed in comparison to what it was, thanks to the sheer size of the new turbines and the fact that the more consistent wind offshore means they just produce a lot more electricity even for the same size turbine.

The big problem is that these projects - onshore or offshore - tend to involve a lot of debt, which has got a lot more expensive since interest rates went up.

 

[foxy]

There's obviously a huge argument around this.
Being in my 50s, it was suggested to me when I was younger that I invest in my pension, add it to the state pension and that would be my living wage. Which ironically would be somewhere around what the state calls "The Living wage" (Around £24k a year or £12 an hour)

You'd be shocked how much I actually pay in and have been doing for some years - a failed defined benefit pension which is worthless, despite paying in for 15 years and now having to stuff 20% of my income into a pension for the rest of my working days to get to what the Government call "A living wage".

I'm going to be taxed on this too.

I completely get that it's not sustainable (We're not in the kind of problems the Japanese have yet and we're probably 100 years away from that). I also don't disagree that youngsters should be forced to pay into a private pension pot, but the last few Governments have absolutely caned the older generations and the Tories bring in the triple-lock and expect the oldiewonks who have been shafted (particular the WASPI folk) to keep voting for them?

You can't suddenly change people's Ts and Cs when they've got no way of getting out of their situation.

I'm also not one of those though that should "We paid in, we should be able to cash out", because that's just a poor argument.

The employer is the one paying into the superannuation schemes at 12% of the employee's wage. It is up to the individual if he want's to contribute. It is a good system that works. I won't see any of my pension when the time comes but it doesn't bother me it can be used elsewhere. Biggest problem is most people don't put away or invest for old age, they think the state pension will be enough.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

problem is most people don't put away or invest for old age, they think the state pension will be enough.

When I started work 46 years ago we never discussed private pensions retirement wasn't something you thought about or discussed, I imagine if we ever did the state pension was thought to be enough to live on as I don't remember people moaning about it times have changed I have advised my son to put as much as he can afford into a pension as by the time he retires there won't be a state pension.

 

[samale]

I need My money now. No point looking too far ahead. You may not be around to enjoy it.

 

[foxy]

When I started work 46 years ago we never discussed private pensions retirement wasn't something you thought about or discussed, I imagine if we ever did the state pension was thought to be enough to live on as I don't remember people moaning about it times have changed I have advised my son to put as much as he can afford into a pension as by the time he retires there won't be a state pension.

So you never took out a life insurance when you started work? Most people did and if one lives to 65 years of age then a lump sum gets paid.
I would tell him to get good private health cover too. The way the NHS is going he will need it.

 

[samale]

So you never took out a life insurance when you started work? Most people did and if one lives to 65 years of age then a lump sum gets paid.
I would tell him to get good private health cover too. The way the NHS is going he will need it.

I have private health care for all My family. It's an absolute disgrace that I have to use it but it has been very useful. My daughter had to get her tonsils out, no chance at the minute on the NHS.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So you never took out a life insurance when you started work?

No and i dont know anyone who did back then or if its something people do now.

 

[alfajerry]

No and i dont know anyone who did back then or if its something people do now.

I started work back in 1977 and I didn't/don't know anyone who took out life insurance, other than as part of an endowment mortgage.

 

[Fazzer]

Until the day somebody in government grows a pair and makes it so not working if you can is a lot less attractive than working, the good honest hard working people of this country are being shafted left right and centre by lazy feckers who take great delight in manipulating the system, included in these benefits is a free ni stamp towards their state pension they should buy it out of their benefits, the best thing to do is scrap the state pension apart from the genuine people who can't work, this will never happen as it would be unpopular no government would risk it

How about flipping it around, and making work more attractive than benefits?

 

[gavp1979]

So you never took out a life insurance when you started work? Most people did and if one lives to 65 years of age then a lump sum gets paid.
I would tell him to get good private health cover too. The way the NHS is going he will need it.

I assume this is more of an Aussie thing than in the UK, I like the sound of it but I have never heard of a life insurance policy over here that pays out if you don't die