CRS lost its mojo?

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Main downside of CRS is that you are increasing SO4[2-]- and Cl[-], and sometimes it's impossible to get your water profile to work out if for example you are going for a low sulphate profile.

Well that’s true of course, but it’s not a good reason for all the opprobrium heaped on CRC in some quarters. All I can say after having witnessed some of the online debates between Brungard, Delange and Kai is that “opinions differ” (!!)

 

[Braufather]

When you say you haven’t heard good things about CRS, do you mean you’ve heard bad things about it? I

It’s a few years ago when I looked into using it but remember reading quite a bit of negatively about it, to do with off flavours, I recall. No idea how much truth in that but I found Much more negatives than positives in my research and that was enough to put me off using it.

 

[chthon]

It’s a few years ago when I looked into using it but remember reading quite a bit of negatively about it, to do with off flavours, I recall. No idea how much truth in that but I found Much more negatives than positives in my research and that was enough to put me off using it.

Flavours? This is weird. Since both acids dissociate much easier than phosphoric or lactic acid, you probably need less to get the same pH, and the only things that are added further are Cl- and SO4--, which are the same as you get with adding CaCl and CaSO4.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

It’s a few years ago when I looked into using it but remember reading quite a bit of negatively about it, to do with off flavours, I recall. No idea how much truth in that but I found Much more negatives than positives in my research and that was enough to put me off using it.

The 'echo chamber' effect is strong.
I believe a lot of the negativity flows from people who don't brew bitter and don't have to contend with properly hard water.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

As @chthon mentions, both sulphuric and hydrochloric acid are strong acids, which means that in water they fully dissociate into H+ ions plus sulphate and chloride ions. The H+ ions neutralise the bicarbonates in the water, turning it into CO2 (gas) and pure water.
So all that's left is the sulphate and chloride ions.

 

[Pennine]

When I read the arguments against I got the impression they were arguing there are better options than crs. If it fits your water and the beer you are brewing it seems like a fine solution.

@The-Engineer-That-Brews what kind of sulfate and chloride levels do you have with 25ml added in? Are you also using gypsum and calcium chloride?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

what kind of sulfate and chloride levels do you have with 25ml added in? Are you also using gypsum and calcium chloride?

I don’t have any way of measuring sulphate and chloride levels directly @Pennine however my water report puts chloride and sulphate at about 39 and 24 mg/l respectively, within a range of about +/-8.
Since the reduction in alkalinity I get by adding CRS closely matches the spec sheet (below) I’m reasonably confident the sulphate and chloride added do too:

So if I add enough CRS just to neutralise the alkalinity I end up with about 130 chloride and 144 sulphate, so in the past I’ve often topped up the sulphate with a bit of gypsum.
However since recently getting a pH meter, I now realise (at least with my current base malt) that the above amount of CRS is insufficient to get me to a decent mash pH, so I’m having to add a bit more.
Finally I should add that if I’m brewing something like a pils, I dilute my tap water by 50-75% with RO/DI in order to get the calcium down and start from a more neutral level of minerals.

 

[Pennine]

I don’t have any way of measuring sulphate and chloride levels directly @Pennine however my water report puts chloride and sulphate at about 39 and 24 mg/l respectively, within a range of about +/-8.
Since the reduction in alkalinity I get by adding CRS closely matches the spec sheet (below) I’m reasonably confident the sulphate and chloride added do too:
View attachment 67323
So if I add enough CRS just to neutralise the alkalinity I end up with about 130 chloride and 144 sulphate, so in the past I’ve often topped up the sulphate with a bit of gypsum.
However since recently getting a pH meter, I now realise (at least with my current base malt) that the above amount of CRS is insufficient to get me to a decent mash pH, so I’m having to add a bit more.
Finally I should add that if I’m brewing something like a pils, I dilute my tap water by 50-75% with RO/DI in order to get the calcium down and start from a more neutral level of minerals.

Got it, that's close to where I was when I looked at it for my tap water. Trying to get a 2:1 ratio or vice versa is difficult at those levels but like you said you can always dilute with RO.