Shepheard Neame 1698 Yeast

terrym · Mar 5, 2016

If there's anyone out there thinking of giving this yeast a go be aware that the fermentation needs micromanaging it seems.
My experience so far has been that the fermentation stalled at 1.020 after seven days because the yeast was held up by the krausen, and there was little or no yeast in the brew itself. The remedy to get things going seems to be to open up the FV (as MyQul's linked article above suggests) and turn in the krausen/yeast, but then it re-establishes and in my case bubbled though the lock overnight at day eight, and so it needs doing again. I am now having to turn the top back into the brew twice per day to keep it going although the thick krausen is now slowly dying back. To keep opening the FV goes against my 'brewing instinct' given the repeated risk of infection in spite of my best efforts to avoid contamination. Added to which you simply can't just leave it and forget all about it as you would normally do for 7/10 days.

MyQul · Mar 5, 2016

terrym said:
If there's anyone out there thinking of giving this yeast a go be aware that the fermentation needs micromanaging it seems.
My experience so far has been that the fermentation stalled at 1.020 after seven days because the yeast was held up by the krausen, and there was little or no yeast in the brew itself. The remedy to get things going seems to be to open up the FV (as MyQul's linked article above suggests) and turn in the krausen/yeast, but then it re-establishes and in my case bubbled though the lock overnight at day eight, and so it needs doing again. I am now having to turn the top back into the brew twice per day to keep it going although the thick krausen is now slowly dying back. To keep opening the FV goes against my 'brewing instinct' given the repeated risk of infection in spite of my best efforts to avoid contamination. Added to which you simply can't just leave it and forget all about it as you would normally do for 7/10 days.

Duly noted. As metioned I swirled the krausen back into the wort rather than opened the FV when I used 1469 as like you I'm a bit worried about infection when opening a still fermenting FV.

I wonder what @hisdudeness opinion on this is as he's the only other forumite I know who has cultured up this strain

terrym · Mar 5, 2016

MyQul said:
Duly noted. As metioned I swirled the krausen back into the wort rather than opened the FV when I used 1469 as like you I'm a bit worried about infection when opening a still fermenting FV.

I wonder what @hisdudeness opinion on this is as he's the only other forumite I know who has cultured up this strain

I don't think swirling would have worked although I did think about it since the yeast krausen is thick, and quite solid, it reminded me of like a slightly soft meringue.

MyQul · Mar 5, 2016

terrym said:
I don't think swirling would have worked although I did think about it since the yeast krausen is thick, and quite solid, it reminded me of like a slightly soft meringue.

1469 on was similar. It never completely sank and I had to stir it into the beer at bottling time when I added priming solution. Swirling did seem to work quite well though, even though it grew back soon after

HisDudeness · Mar 5, 2016

I agree with MyQul when it comes to swirling, I currently have some West Yorkshire on the go in a TT style beer and it did help to get it to drop out. I think that the SN yeast did perform in a very similar way to what I have observed so far with this stuff, although I didn't actually get to see it in a brew so bit of guessing here!

HisDudeness · Mar 5, 2016

The west yorks did take quite a while to ferment out (10 days ish) despite it being very active, I guess this is probably also due to much of the yeast being suspended in the krausen? Perhaps with yeasts that do this highly floaty/floccy thing it might be a benefit to over pitch slightly to counter this?

terrym · Mar 6, 2016

HisDudeness said:
The west yorks did take quite a while to ferment out (10 days ish) despite it being very active, I guess this is probably also due to much of the yeast being suspended in the krausen? Perhaps with yeasts that do this highly floaty/floccy thing it might be a benefit to over pitch slightly to counter this?

Dude
I think you are right, mine looked like it had finished when I racked off today at 10 days on, prior to five days of dry hopping.
The brew was a fairly clear sandwich filling between a yeast crust topped krausen which I've gathered for further use perhaps, and the usual trub layer at the bottom. My 140 ml of yeast slurry that I originally pitched has produced quite a lot of yeast, probably as much as 50% more than I usually get.
Unless the hydrometer goes down a bit more I reckon I've got just over 70% attenuation.
The small tasting sample I took was quite 'fruity' but probably its too early to tell what it's going to turn out like. Added to which I've not done this brew before.

MyQul · Mar 6, 2016

terrym said:
Dude
I think you are right, mine looked like it had finished when I racked off today at 10 days on, prior to five days of dry hopping.
The brew was a fairly clear sandwich filling between a yeast crust topped krausen which I've gathered for further use perhaps, and the usual trub layer at the bottom. My 140 ml of yeast slurry that I originally pitched has produced quite a lot of yeast, probably as much as 50% more than I usually get.
Unless the hydrometer goes down a bit more I reckon I've got just over 70% attenuation.
The small tasting sample I took was quite 'fruity' but probably its too early to tell what it's going to turn out like. Added to which I've not done this brew before.

What sort of fruits? Dark stone fruits like cherries/plums, soft appley (like I get from 1469, etc? from my experince with yeast esters your tasting sample will be what it will be like. It will only mellow over time rather than change

MyQul · Mar 6, 2016

terrym said:
Dude
I think you are right, mine looked like it had finished when I racked off today at 10 days on, prior to five days of dry hopping.
The brew was a fairly clear sandwich filling between a yeast crust topped krausen which I've gathered for further use perhaps, and the usual trub layer at the bottom. My 140 ml of yeast slurry that I originally pitched has produced quite a lot of yeast, probably as much as 50% more than I usually get.
Unless the hydrometer goes down a bit more I reckon I've got just over 70% attenuation.
The small tasting sample I took was quite 'fruity' but probably its too early to tell what it's going to turn out like. Added to which I've not done this brew before.

What sort of fruits? Dark stone fruits like cherries/plums, soft appley (like I get from 1469, etc? from my experince with yeast esters your tasting sample will be what it will be like. It will only mellow over time rather than change.
I got quite a lot of yeast with the 1469 too. I get more in the bottles than I usually do

MyQul · Mar 6, 2016

HisDudeness said:
The west yorks did take quite a while to ferment out (10 days ish) despite it being very active, I guess this is probably also due to much of the yeast being suspended in the krausen? Perhaps with yeasts that do this highly floaty/floccy thing it might be a benefit to over pitch slightly to counter this?

in theory this would work but...overpitching causes a cleaner flavour as the fruity esters you normally want from an English ale strain are produced during replication of daughter/clone cells. If you overpitch the yeast gets right down to producing alcohol straight away and not much of the esters (and replicating new cells)that you would like

MyQul · Mar 10, 2016

Just put the dregs of a bottle of 1698 in to 100ml of 1.020 starter. I'm really enjoying the beer itself too. Will have to make an old ale methinks

terrym · Mar 11, 2016

My brew has been bottled and kegged today. It had 10 days in the first FV then I racked off to a second FV and it had three days dry hopping in the warm followed by two more in the cold. I put 8 litres in bottles and the rest has gone into a PB, to compare. It finished at 1.014 which gives an attenuation of just over 70%. It has kept the 'fruity taste' which is more apples (but not cider) rather than berries or plums. I think it will come good; no sign of a homebrew twang (always a thought with a new kit), at least at present. There was still enough yeast in suspension, although not too much, to produce a steady carbonation. There wasn't a great deal of yeast at the bottom of the FV, (I must have left most left behind when I racked off) but there were a few clumps on top before I started to empty the FV.
I will update when I have a worthwhile sample in two or three weeks time, and will eventually put a review on the Ritchie's Burton Bridge kit review thread for that's what its based on although I did mod it somewhat.

MyQul · Mar 20, 2016

Mine is now at the 250ml of 1.040 wort. I added it yeasterday. I think I'm going to need a blow off tube when I finally come to pitch in 23L of wort as the krausen on the culture in the jar is massive!

terrym · Mar 21, 2016

MyQul said:
Mine is now at the 250ml of 1.040 wort. I added it yeasterday. I think I'm going to need a blow off tube when I finally come to pitch in 23L of wort as the krausen on the culture in the jar is massive!

But don't forget to stir it back in when the fermentation starts to die down, or you will end up with a yeast raft floating on clearing part fermented wort like I like I did. :-?
My brew is now 10 days on from when I put into my PB and bottles. Early samples still have the fruity taste which may be the yeast, but the few reviews there are on here for the Burton Bitter kit mention a fruity taste so it may be that. Like all beers with a lot of taste things going on I think this brew is going to take a long time to condition properly so I can't say any more at this stage.
I will be doing another brew fairly soon with the 1698 cropped yeast so will give some feeedback when that gets going.

MyQul · Mar 21, 2016

terrym said:
But don't forget to stir it back in when the fermentation starts to die down, or you will end up with a yeast raft floating on clearing part fermented wort like I like I did. :-?
My brew is now 10 days on from when I put into my PB and bottles. Early samples still have the fruity taste which may be the yeast, but the few reviews there are on here for the Burton Bitter kit mention a fruity taste so it may be that. Like all beers with a lot of taste things going on I think this brew is going to take a long time to condition properly so I can't say any more at this stage.
I will be doing another brew fairly soon with the 1698 cropped yeast so will give some feeedback when that gets going.

As it's in a jar ar the moment, I've just been shaking it back into the wort. But will deffo remember to swirl it back in when I pitch in the final brew. Glad I'm hearing fruityness as that's just what I'm after

Simonh82 · Mar 25, 2016

I've had a very similar experience to your 1689 yeast with yeast from the Wibbler Brewery. I made a pale ale with an OG of 1.043. It took off like a rocket and blew a litre of yeast out of the blow off tube. Within 48 hours it had really died down and when I took a gravity sample after 5 days it was only at 1.014. By this stage it was only bubbling once every 10-15 seconds so I was worried it was trying to stick on me.

I stirred the krausen back in to the wort and roused the yeast at the bottom and swapped the blow off for a normal airlock. When I checked back 6 hours later, I had yeast oozing out of the airlock.

Remembering this thread, I've given it a genital stir to get the yeast back in to the wort and I've reattached the blow off tube. Hopefully this will get it down to about 1.009 which is where I think it should finish.

Funny old stuff yeast.

MyQul · Mar 25, 2016

Simonh82 said:
Remembering this thread, I've given it a genital stir to get the yeast back in to the wort

Think you might infect your brew if you do that, unless you've given em a good wash first

:lol:

Simonh82 · Mar 25, 2016

I'd like to blame that on my phone auto-correct and dyslexia but maybe it say something about how much I love beer!:lol::lol:

MyQul · Mar 28, 2016

Just put the 250ml into 2L wort that I portioned off from my weekend brew. Had a taste of the 250ml wort and it has a light fruit taste. Really nice. I think this is going to be a great yeast. Can't quite put my finger on what particular fruit though

terrym · Mar 29, 2016

OK.
Next brew now on the go with 1698 yeast harvested from the last brew (so it's 2nd generation).
This is a Festival Landlords Bitter kit which I shall brew with nothing added to the kit except for the yeast substitution, and have brewed short to 21.5 litres not 23 litres. As 1698 maybe very similar to a WY1469 West Yorkshire yeast it seems appropriate to use it.
Less than 24 hours on, Krausen had already hit the lid/required blow-off tube etc etc, but died back a bit when I took it out of my water bath at 19*C and left it in the garage at 14*C.
Subject to boil overs/clean ups I will try to leave this alone until things start to die down then will start to turn the yeast back into the brew by swirling or using a big spoon or similar, all to sustain the fermentation like I found out last time.

Shepheard Neame 1698 Yeast

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