Hops_and_Dreams
Landlord.
Am I right in saying that this is where the proteins come out of the wort during the boil? I've done two extract boils now and I was expecting to find some sort of sludge at the bottom of the pan, but nothing either time?
Hot Break
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morning mate, this is from how to brew by john palmer, hope it helps:
A foam will start to rise and form a smooth surface. This is good. If the foam suddenly billows over the side, this is a boil-over (Bad). If it looks like it is going to boil over, either lower the heat or spray the surface with water from a spray bottle. The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein in your extract. Often the first hop addition triggers a great deal of foaming, especially if hop pellets are used. I recommend waiting until the Hot break occurs before doing your first Hop addition and timing the hour. The extra boiling time won't hurt.
A foam will start to rise and form a smooth surface. This is good. If the foam suddenly billows over the side, this is a boil-over (Bad). If it looks like it is going to boil over, either lower the heat or spray the surface with water from a spray bottle. The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein in your extract. Often the first hop addition triggers a great deal of foaming, especially if hop pellets are used. I recommend waiting until the Hot break occurs before doing your first Hop addition and timing the hour. The extra boiling time won't hurt.
Hops_and_Dreams
Landlord.
Hmmm. Can't say I noticed anything floating, other than hops. The foaming did subside though. Thanks Brydo.
jmh7117
alejunky
When I add the extract to boiling water and it has stopped foaming you can see the hot break happening. But I also have not had any protein deposits left over. I have read that some brewery's chill and filter the beer prior to bottling to stop chill haze.
BeestonHop_John
Junior Member
I didn't look out for the hot break when I brewed with extract, but for AG it starts to form at about 90 degrees. I start scooping it out when I see it form, so by the time I get to 100 degrees, and first hop addition, I have generally skimmed all of it off.
I might be wrong but I don't think the break material is as much of an issue if you're using extract as the extract has probably already had all that produced. You may get some if you're steeping??
When I did extract I had next to nothing left in the kettle, when I did my first partial I didn't think about it (to strain either) and was suprised by all the material in my FV as a result.
When I did extract I had next to nothing left in the kettle, when I did my first partial I didn't think about it (to strain either) and was suprised by all the material in my FV as a result.
EssexBrewing
Active Member
I've read elsewhere that John Palmer is not correct on the definition of the Hot Break. The foam near the beginning of the boil is not the Hot Break.
The Hot Break usually forms between 60 and 90 minutes into the boil and looks like scrambled egg
The Hot Break usually forms between 60 and 90 minutes into the boil and looks like scrambled egg
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EB is spot on here, while the initial foaming may have something to do with protein drop its more likely to be the sudden evacuation of absorbed and dissolved gas in the liquor as the temp rises close to and hit boiling point.
the actual hot break is the reason folk boil for 60-90mins to ensure it occurs
you cant see it in the boil kettle you jusy have to boil long enough for the effect to occur.
you can see it if you boil in glass however, here it is forming in a DME 1.040 liquor after circa 45mins of gentle simmering
Is the idea you want it to occur so you can strain it out when you transfer to FV?
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No you wont strain it,
you add kettle finnings which will clump it together somewhat and it will then drop out as trub with the rest of the sediment in the fv.
I add Irish moss a couple of pinches normally at 15 mins.. what I did on my last one was use a jug and pour through a seive to catch the hop debris.
Although from the sounds of it doing a whirlpool leaving it and then and siphon from the edge might be the best option
edit is this also what false bottoms are useful for in boilers? so that these fall out below and you just rack off from the top of the false bottom
Although from the sounds of it doing a whirlpool leaving it and then and siphon from the edge might be the best option
edit is this also what false bottoms are useful for in boilers? so that these fall out below and you just rack off from the top of the false bottom
I'm not sure I ever got a hot break with extract. One brew did a massive foam up then subsided but I think it just got too hot. Didn't get an obvious one on my Ag biab either but it's as clear as any other I've done.
I wouldnt worry too much, I've stopped being concerned about it! That said I haven't tried the Ag brew yet so it might be muck.
I wouldnt worry too much, I've stopped being concerned about it! That said I haven't tried the Ag brew yet so it might be muck.
Hops_and_Dreams
Landlord.
Cheers for all the replies. I'd read the John Palmer piece before, hence why I was looking for it and wondered if I was doing something wrong.
As I won't get one with extract, I won't worry about it any more.
Am I right in saying I still need the Irish moss to help it clear after fermentation?
As I won't get one with extract, I won't worry about it any more.
Am I right in saying I still need the Irish moss to help it clear after fermentation?
Its probably not as important as if you were using grain but I would still put some in, IIRC most recipes still call for it.. its only a pinch anyway.
Not that I think it would be harmed/ ruined if you left it out or anything.
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+1 it cant hurt to add, and may be benificial
Hops_and_Dreams
Landlord.
Cheers chaps, i'll keep adding it then!
I never used Irish moss til my AG brew, and all my extract brews cleared perfectly. What I have had from all my extract and one AG brew was strange particles that look clear (might just be v small though) that cling to the glass of the bottle in bands. They eventually drop out during conditioning so I'm assuming it's just yeast or protein that hasn't dropped because it's touching the glass (as opposed to touching the cloth...). Tried to take a photo of it but its too fine to show up properly.
Cwrw666
Landlord.
3 BIABs bottled / barrelled so far and none have been remotely clear. The Northern Brown Ale wasn't too bad but the East Kent Goldings single hop was like soup, both times. Didn't use anything to help clear them though and not bothered much as it doesn't affect the taste. I did wonder how much of it was hop dust in the Kent brew as it used an awful lot of hops.
