Imerssion chillers vs other types

[DuncR]

Would you believe I tray baked the last of the sprouts last night. They've been in the unheated conservatory (which we use as a fridge/larder in winter) since before Christmas. There were only a handful that were still cookable. (I was going to say 'edible' rather than 'cookable' but I know many would contest that sprouts are ever edible ).

Edible! We are talking here about the Ferrero Roche of the vegetable world. Dipped in cold gravy hmmmmmm

 

[Twostage]

Edible! We are talking here about the Ferrero Roche of the vegetable world. Dipped in cold gravy hmmmmmm

They were my favourite part of the traybake, just a bit crispy on the outside.

 

[marshbrewer]

I use a immersion chiller, and it causes lots of what I assume is proteins that have been clumped by the protofloc to drop out. With an counterflow or plate chiller, does this not happen? If so, is protofloc a waste of time with these types of chillers?

 

[An Ankoù]

Edible! We are talking here about the Ferrero Roche of the vegetable world. Dipped in cold gravy hmmmmmm

Philistine!
Dipped in chocolate and rolled in hundred-and-thousands is the way to enjoy sprouts.

 

[Agentgonzo]

I use a immersion chiller, and it causes lots of what I assume is proteins that have been clumped by the protofloc to drop out. With an counterflow or plate chiller, does this not happen? If so, is protofloc a waste of time with these types of chillers?

It does happen. The proteins just go into the fermenter and they floc out there.

Here's a video of some wort that was chilled via my CFC straight into the test cylinder. You can see the cold break forming and dropping to the bottom.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

As a matter of interest, how do you do a partial chill to, say, 80C, in order to do a hopstand? Do you recirculate back into the kettle?

Yes I do via the CFC into whirlpool.

 

[MashBag]

Conclusion. The only way to get consistency is to measure IBUs prior to packaging and adjust with isomerised hop extract, We, too, can make Bud!

I can't help but think taking the hops out, is easier than calibrating your chiller flow rate.

 

[MashBag]

I use a immersion chiller, and it causes lots of what I assume is proteins that have been clumped by the protofloc to drop out. With an counterflow or plate chiller, does this not happen? If so, is protofloc a waste of time with these types of chillers?

This forms regardless of the chiller type IME

 

[hoppyscotty]

If you have a good false bottom or way of catching 'stuff' then this should still be caught and left behind in the kettle as with any other method. However with cold break this will form in the fermenter rather than the kettle if you're using a plate chiller. But the cold break just re-absorbs back into the wort over time. I see cold break in the sight glass at the bottom of my fermenter as I'm knocking wort out into the fermenter (single pass through the chiller into fermenter)...the cloudy coagulated milk effect though the sight glass. But give it 15 mins or so and the wort is crystal clear as the cold break has re-absorbed back into the wort.

 

[Agentgonzo]

But give it 15 mins or so and the wort is crystal clear as the cold break has re-absorbed back into the wort.

Are you sure it's actually reabsorbed? What I've witnessed is that the wort starts out cloudy as you say, but within 15 mins the cold break clumps together and falls to the bottom, leaving clear wort.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Are you sure it's actually reabsorbed? What I've witnessed is that the wort starts out cloudy as you say, but within 15 mins the cold break clumps together and falls to the bottom, leaving clear wort.

My experience as well, monitored in fermentasaurus many times.
I don't drop this out of the collection bottle, it ferments and I fine and get clear beer as usual.

 

[MashBag]

I would venture these are 2 different things. One a protein haze caused by the chilling which is reabsorbed and a precipitate, which settled out.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Well whatever cold break is it comes from the wort itself and the act of relatively quick cooling of the wort causes it to precipitate out so over time when things stabilise no reason for it not to be re-absorbed...thats my assumption at least...in any case since it comes from the wort then I see no reason to attempt to filter it out or remove it.

At the bottom of my conical I have a short sight glass which is my only window into the fermenter (miss the visibility my Fermzilla provides), then an elbow fitting then the butterfly valve, so if it does settle out rather than re-absorb back into the wort then there is not that much of it if it can hide in the elbow fitting below the sight glass. Either way it doesn't seem to impact the beer at all.

It's a while since I've brewed with my fermzilla and struggling to remember if I saw a similar effect, but with my Brewzilla I always sucked through some hops from the whirlpool and a bit of trub from the bottom of the kettle so think I always got some trub settling out of the wort in the Fermzilla collection jar. In my larger 3V system I have a False Bottom that actually works so get pretty trub free wort out of the kettle.

But I've observed when I pour a beer I've brewed I might get chill haze, but leave the beer to warm up a bit and the chill haze disappears and I'm left with clear transparent beer. Is chill haze not just cold break too?

Also my plate chiller, in the cooler months where the ground water is cold, over chills my wort and will often get it Into the fermenter at about 10 degrees C so I have to warm the wort upto pitching temp before I can pitch yeast.. so this additional process of warming the wort for a couple of hours might impact things. I need a bigger wort pump!!

 

[MashBag]

Is chill haze not just cold break too?

Yes. I think cold break is/can be both a temporary temperature haze and cause solids to form & settle

 

[Agentgonzo]

Also my plate chiller, in the cooler months where the ground water is cold, over chills my wort and will often get it Into the fermenter at about 10 degrees C so I have to warm the wort upto pitching temp before I can pitch yeas

Can't you just slow down the flow rate from your chilling water?

 

[hoppyscotty]

Yep... just need a tap fitting on the chiller as my outside tap is a bit of a way away so a bit of a PITA to manage but would make things a bit more easier.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Clarity form helps with chill haze, also reduces gluten. Only needs a few ml per batch.

 

[MashBag]

Clarity form helps with chill haze, also reduces gluten. Only needs a few ml per batch.

I am thinking of giving it a go. That said the reason I haven't purchased is imo the packaging is terrible.

15g @ 0.5ml is probably 25-30 individual doses. From what is little more than a plastic bag.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/nbs-clarity-15ml/?v=79cba1185463

 

[JockyBrewer]

But I've observed when I pour a beer I've brewed I might get chill haze, but leave the beer to warm up a bit and the chill haze disappears and I'm left with clear transparent beer. Is chill haze not just cold break too?

Chill haze is caused by similar things to cold break - protein and polyphenols - but for chill haze what happens is that they bind together when cold enough to form a visible haze. They unbind when things warm up again as the polyphenols that cause chill haze are very light weight and the attraction is low.

As a result you can only really remove chill haze by first of all causing it. Get the beer cold and then fine it and the fining will help the haze clump together more permanently so it drops out.

Alternatively endoprotease enzymes like Clarity Ferm or NBS Clarity (https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/nbs-clarity-15ml/?v=79cba1185463) can be used to break apart the proteins so the binding doesn't happen. In my experience it works, but it won't get a beer as sparklingly clear as gelatin or isinglass.

 

[hoppyscotty]

But why bother? if perfectly clear beer is important then I guess you have to go to such measures but it doesn't impact the beer at all in terms of flavour or enjoyment and for hop forward beers you're better off not drinking them super chilled anyway, so waiting a bit for the beer to warm after pouring will give time for the chill haze to subside.

For a lager I guess its different where you want them colder and aroma is less of a thing, but for ales it seems a bit of a hassle for an aesthetic thing.