Aging - Apple wine - How and how long?

[TheBlindHarper]

Afternoon guys, hope all's well and you're all keeping safe.
So, my apple cider is coming along nicely, bubbling consistently and looking good. Turns out I added too much sugar and I've been told that, chances are, my apple cider should ferment to about 12 / 13% ABV. I will then be racking in to a secondary vessel where I will be adding 2LB of peach puree to brew in secondary.

From my reading it seems that products with higher ABV tend to want to be (Or are at least capable of being) aged longer. Say my final product comes out at 12%, how long should I age this for in order to encourage the fruity apple and peach flavours to shine through again?

Aging the product - Is it as simple as fill and seal my glass bottles and then leave them somewhere for X-amount of time? During the aging process does the heat, or lack thereof, matter? Would I be able to bottle the drink, and then put the bottles (Totally sealed and protected in a cardboard box and plastic sheeting) in the shed outside?

Also, is it possible to add pectin enzyme (To induce clarity) AFTER fermentation?

 

[Mr_S_Jerusalem]

Think I left my Apple wine about 3 months before I just had to open it lol.

Also add bentonite for clarity at end.

also jah, make it nice and clear, then bottle and leave it alone. Shed outside is good.




Ok fine it was like a month when I opened mine lol, I was trying to sound cool.

 

[TheBlindHarper]

Think I left my Apple wine about 3 months before I just had to open it lol.

Also add bentonite for clarity at end.

also jah, make it nice and clear, then bottle and leave it alone. Shed outside is good.




Ok fine it was like a month when I opened mine lol, I was trying to sound cool.

So, use bentonite AND pectin enzyme or just bentonite?
Do you think this would taste good carbonated? I was planning on carbonating it from the start, but not sure if something with an ABV of 10-ish percent would you okay, what do you think?

Hahaha, 1 month is still better than many folks I'm sure!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You add pectin enzyme at the beginning to stop pectin haze later.



Pectins Effect On Wine or Beer

If you are making a fruit/vegetable wine or a beer with a lot of fruit in then you are introducing pectin to a liquid. If you don’t take preventative measures it’s highly likely there will be a permanent haze in the finished wine or beer. This can be fine in some styles of beer where haze is a natural occurrence but it is definitely not good for wine, I can’t think of any instances where a haze in a wine is acceptable.

The other problem caused by having pectin in your wine is that if you intend to filter the wine prior to bottling then it is very easy for the filter to get blocked and stop running at all.

Fortunately, it is easy to reduce the amount of pectin in your wine or beer using a pectic enzyme which is also referred to as pectolase.

 

[TheBlindHarper]

You add pectin enzyme at the beginning to stop pectin haze later.



Pectins Effect On Wine or Beer

If you are making a fruit/vegetable wine or a beer with a lot of fruit in then you are introducing pectin to a liquid. If you don’t take preventative measures it’s highly likely there will be a permanent haze in the finished wine or beer. This can be fine in some styles of beer where haze is a natural occurrence but it is definitely not good for wine, I can’t think of any instances where a haze in a wine is acceptable.

The other problem caused by having pectin in your wine is that if you intend to filter the wine prior to bottling then it is very easy for the filter to get blocked and stop running at all.

Fortunately, it is easy to reduce the amount of pectin in your wine or beer using a pectic enzyme which is also referred to as pectolase.

Aye I'm afraid I was unaware of this and have already started my brew!
Is there anything I can do post-fermentation or during?

 

[Mr_S_Jerusalem]

Aye I'm afraid I was unaware of this and have already started my brew!
Is there anything I can do post-fermentation or during?

Jah add finings post fermentation.

I said bentonite cos I’m trying to make my wines vegetarian from now on but there are loads of types.
Young’s do a 2 part sachet one that I think is good for 5 gallons.

 

[TheBlindHarper]

Jah add finings post fermentation.

I said bentonite cos I’m trying to make my wines vegetarian from now on but there are loads of types.
Young’s do a 2 part sachet one that I think is good for 5 gallons.

Is bentonite just a type of fining?

Thanks for all the help mate, it's much appreciated.

 

[Mr_S_Jerusalem]

Is bentonite just a type of fining?

Jah it’s like this grey powder stuff made from clay that you mix with the wine.

it works really well as a fining agent. (Make sure you get the one for wine making if you get some, I think they use it for face masks or some **** as well)

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The best finings I have used is kwik clear and young clear it, they are both two part fining and do the job in 48 hours.

 

[TheBlindHarper]

Gr

The best finings I have used is kwik clear and young clear it, they are both two part fining and do the job in 48 hours.

Great, thank you. Is that done during secondary?

 

[TheBlindHarper]

Jah it’s like this grey powder stuff made from clay that you mix with the wine.

it works really well as a fining agent. (Make sure you get the one for wine making if you get some, I think they use it for face masks or some s**t as well)

Thanks, I'll look in to it.

 

[phillc]

With my apple cider, usually in the 7-8% ABV range, I always try to leave it a minimum of one month in the bottles. I opened one last weekend which had only had three weeks bottle aging and while it was drinkable, still had a slight sulphur whiff on the nose, which should dissipate over time.

At the beginning of Corona lockdown in late March I opened a couple of bottles of cider bottled in autumn 2018 and they were genuinely brilliant.

I do think the longer the better.

I have some plum wine which was fermented in September 2019 and has sat in secondary for most of the time since, up until about 2 weeks ago when I bottled it. I intend to leave it in the bottles until about August/September this year, so a full 12 months from fermentation. At the time of bottling it was "drinkable", but I hope it smooths out some more in the next four or five months. It's my first plum wine though, so maybe I just haven't made a very good one.

I also have some mead in bottles now for around 18 months. Still tastes horrid. I should maybe just ditch it, but I'm tempted to continue waiting and see what happens. If I taste it every three months or so, I guess eventually I will drink it all.

 

[TheBlindHarper]

With my apple cider, usually in the 7-8% ABV range, I always try to leave it a minimum of one month in the bottles. I opened one last weekend which had only had three weeks bottle aging and while it was drinkable, still had a slight sulphur whiff on the nose, which should dissipate over time.

At the beginning of Corona lockdown in late March I opened a couple of bottles of cider bottled in autumn 2018 and they were genuinely brilliant.

I do think the longer the better.

I have some plum wine which was fermented in September 2019 and has sat in secondary for most of the time since, up until about 2 weeks ago when I bottled it. I intend to leave it in the bottles until about August/September this year, so a full 12 months from fermentation. At the time of bottling it was "drinkable", but I hope it smooths out some more in the next four or five months. It's my first plum wine though, so maybe I just haven't made a very good one.

I also have some mead in bottles now for around 18 months. Still tastes horrid. I should maybe just ditch it, but I'm tempted to continue waiting and see what happens. If I taste it every three months or so, I guess eventually I will drink it all.

Thanks Phillic. With aging, should I expect the original fruit flavours to make a return, and for that typical strong "cider" smell to subside somewhat or mellow out? What effects should I be expecting on the taste? I was told to expect this to come out at around 12% ABC, roughly.

What's so horrid about your mead?

I'm about to put on a gallon of hard lemonade, will get to pitching some time this week, as I'd quite like to brew something that I can enjoy fairly soon after fermentation and is totally complete without having to worry about too much aging.

 

[phillc]

I don't usually go as high in ABV as you do, because I try to avoid adding sugar and just use what's in the apples naturally, so I'm not entirely sure what you'll end up with. The flavours and smell will depend on the fruit and yeast used. For maximum natural fruit flavour, I use a champagne yeast like EC-1118, which is very neutral but also does a good job killing off any other wild yeasts present.

I find that the longer it is aged, the smoother it becomes and the more the apple flavour on the palate returns. If you get an infection, like Lactobacillus, then long aging can mellow that to a large extent. I have some ciders still in storage which can only be described as nasty after one month in the bottle, but now after 18 months are only slightly sour.

Regarding the mead, I think I just came to the conclusion I don't like drinking honey. Love it on my toast, but not so much a pint of it. I also think I may have had some kind of infection there too, because it's quite sour, which wasn't the plan.

I have never tried hard lemonade.

If you want to try something fun and fast, but actually not that high in alcohol, try looking at Kvass. Stale rye bread is your key ingredient. Here's something with a bit of background. ABV is probably around 2% and it's ready in less than a week. Although some recipes state they can get it to 4%. There's tonnes of recipes and links when searching "Kvass recipe". I don't have a specific recipe and it's a bit of guess work. I find the drink really refreshing and actually the kid enjoys it too. Making Kvass is a way of getting him involved in "brewing" and then being able to drink what he makes (although we make Kombucha too). I generally use whatever beer yeast I have around, always a top fermenter though. I'm keen to try a Kvass with Kveik soon.

Edit: Here's a super simple Kvass recipe: Kvass, Ukraine National Cuisine - Recipes, Pictures, Info.

 

[TheBlindHarper]

I don't usually go as high in ABV as you do, because I try to avoid adding sugar and just use what's in the apples naturally, so I'm not entirely sure what you'll end up with. The flavours and smell will depend on the fruit and yeast used. For maximum natural fruit flavour, I use a champagne yeast like EC-1118, which is very neutral but also does a good job killing off any other wild yeasts present.

I find that the longer it is aged, the smoother it becomes and the more the apple flavour on the palate returns. If you get an infection, like Lactobacillus, then long aging can mellow that to a large extent. I have some ciders still in storage which can only be described as nasty after one month in the bottle, but now after 18 months are only slightly sour.

Regarding the mead, I think I just came to the conclusion I don't like drinking honey. Love it on my toast, but not so much a pint of it. I also think I may have had some kind of infection there too, because it's quite sour, which wasn't the plan.

I have never tried hard lemonade.

If you want to try something fun and fast, but actually not that high in alcohol, try looking at Kvass. Stale rye bread is your key ingredient. Here's something with a bit of background. ABV is probably around 2% and it's ready in less than a week. Although some recipes state they can get it to 4%. There's tonnes of recipes and links when searching "Kvass recipe". I don't have a specific recipe and it's a bit of guess work. I find the drink really refreshing and actually the kid enjoys it too. Making Kvass is a way of getting him involved in "brewing" and then being able to drink what he makes (although we make Kombucha too). I generally use whatever beer yeast I have around, always a top fermenter though. I'm keen to try a Kvass with Kveik soon.

Edit: Here's a super simple Kvass recipe: Kvass, Ukraine National Cuisine - Recipes, Pictures, Info.

That Kvass sounds interesting, I'll look in to it :)

I've used Nottingham ale yeast myself as that's what I was advised to use if I wanted to maintain as much of the fruit flavours as possible.
My brew is a simple one - Merely 5 litre of cloudy pressed apple juice from the carton (Not from concentrate) and sugar, along with yeast nutrient. Ferment this and then rack in to secondary demijohn, add 2Lb of peach puree. Ferment, clarify cider, then bottle and bottle condition and age.
Is there anything I could do between now and bottling to help maintain / bring back the fruit flavours?