Almost given up on homebrew :(

[timcunnell]

My starter kit came with VWP and it was fine for my first brew, but having to sanitise then rinse EVERYTHING was a nightmare, especially 40 bottles! After that I got some no rinse sanitiser and has been a real time saver.

Yeah that is why I stuck with VWP I guess. I got a little pot with my starter kit, so when it ran out I just got the bigger pot. But yeah I guess with bottling it must be a total nightmare rinsing all that!

 

[MyQul]

So the question is, do you think the VWP could be causing my beer to taste so bad?? I guess it does seem unlikely as it really isn't much. And I really can't stress enough just how bad this beer tastes!!!

VWP is chlorine based. If you don't rinse chlorine based cleaners/sterilisers the chlorine can reaact with the beer and cause an medicianal/band aid off flavour in it

 

[MrDasherD]

VWP is a very good cleaner / sanitizer but it MUST be thoroughly rinsed after use. This is no real hassle if you're kegging and takes very little time. I rinse my kegs 2 or 3 times after soaking in VWP. If you don't rinse, no wonder the beer tastes rank! (Recycle the rinse water too!)

 

[Covrich]

Guys just another question that has popped into my head. Bit of a daft one really!
I am just not sure how I am meant to be prepping my keg before siphoning my beer into it. What I mean by this is that my usual process has been to fill the keg about 3/4 full with fairly hot water (not boiling) and mix in the steriliser. I then put the lid on and give it all a really good slosh about for a bit. Then I start letting the steriliser fluid out via the tap - until I basically get bored because its taking too long, and unscrew the lid to pour the rest out of the top.
Okay so far maybe!?
But after this and I have tipped out all the sterilizer as much as I can, I am still left with drops of it/residue etc. And I am just not sure whether I ought to be getting in there with a bit of kitchen roll to mop the rest up - or if its okay to leave a few drops still in there? Does it matter?
For the record, what I have been doing is largely leaving a few drops behind. I take it the seriliser can't damage the beer?? Can it??

Most steralisers I know you're supposed to rinse out thoroughly, with star san and such you dont these are no rinse sanitisers.. but yes check your sterliaser I bet it says you need to rinse it out otherwise it can leave serious off flavours in your beer.

 

[wheazy_joe]

Looks like we've got to the bottom of the problem (hopefully!).

 

[Sandimas]

I don't think sterliliser has been the source of your problems, yes it will affect the beer but not to the extent described.

Really strong TCP taste + undrinkable beer = infection

As several of us have said, try bottling a few from your next brew, remembering to rinse bot the bottles and keg a few times :

 

[rodabod]

I use VWP. I don't bother rinsing larger items like fermenting vessels. I tip upside down and leave only a few drips which don't affect the taste in my experience as it's diluted by so many litres of fluid. I do however rinse bottles with tap water when bottling as it has much less liquid to dilute with.

 

[Racinsnake]

Oh man Rod!! :wha:
Your joking right? I can't imagine that tasting good.

 

[timcunnell]

Hey guys - I just wanted to post a bit of a follow-up on this thread as I started it a few weeks ago and have progressed a brew using the great advice you've kindly provided.
Following popular advice I opted for some Starsan. Although I didn't have it when I started the fermentation so I used VWP for that. But my problems has always been with the beer spoiling after its gone in the keg. I also bought an auto-siphon as others mentioned that sucking the tube can be dodgy. And for the first time I have tried bottling half my beer and kegging the rest. The problems previously seemed to always occur in the keg.
So I have sterilised my King Keg with Starsan, including running a load out through the tap. Based on advice from another forum I decided to wash my bottles out, but to sterilise by putting them in the oven.
So as of last night I have 24 bottles and another 12 litres or so in the keg. So fingers crossed this time I get some drinkable beer!

Incidentally I just wanted to say that I have brewed the Muntons American IPA from their new "Hand Crafted" range. And so far I am REALLY impressed with it! The smell of the beer yesterday when I opened the fermenter was just unbelievably good. And it tasted absolutely lovely!! So if it improves from here on I will be delighted - and ordering more!!
I was a little concerned about the temperature I fermented at as it was probably 22-23 where the recomendation was 16-18. Although the kit came with a US yeast with I have read is quite resistant to high temp. I fermented for a total of 10 days, and dry-hopped with the included pack of citra hops after 4 days.
Going to leave the bottles now for 2 weeks before trying one. Fingers crossed!!

 

[MyQul]

16C-18C is actually quite cool for ale yeast to ferment at. About 20C, + or - 1C is what you should be aiming at. 22C-23C you'll still be fine but you get more esters (fruity flavours) but depending on beers style it might what your aiming for

 

[timcunnell]

Ah okay MyQul thanks! I must admit I though 16-18 seemed really low, but I am very much a beginner! Previous kits I've used have always specified 20-22 I think.
Anyway as you say, hopefully it might even be better! Some fruitiness in an IPA should work well I reckon :)

 

[MyQul]

Obviously, you might very much like fruityness in and IPA but style wise the yeast profile is required to be clean without fruityness to allow the hops to shine through. If your kit came with US-O5 yeast, this is a very clean yeast (although I've not used it yet but will be putting it in a stout clone I have planned next). Temp wise it's got a high max temp range, 25C, although the recommended range is lower

 

[timcunnell]

Hello chaps. So - I just wanted to post an update having started this thread a good few weeks ago and hoping to re-ignite my love for home brewing.
I had some great advice from you guys and I have to say I was fairly confident that I had turned a corner and put my bad brews behind me.
BUT, alas my American IPA that I've had conditioning now for a couple of weeks has fallen foul of the same fate!! For the first time I tried bottling half my batch, so ended up with 24 bottles and another 12 litres or so in the King Keg.
By way of a very rough timeline of events, I fermented the beer for 10 days which seemed to go well. I didn't open my fermenter at all during the 10 day period (in the past I have definitely been guilty of excessive fiddling and taking of hydrometer readings). When I did open the fermenter I have to say the beer smelled absolutely incredible! And I tasted some and although obviously it needed to condition it was already really good.
In terms of racking I prepared 24 bottles (old ones that I'd bought and rinsed out). I washed the bottles as best I could, and finally sterilised them in the oven (40 mins at 150 c). I transferred the beer to a secondary FV using my new auto-siphon - which I sterilised with Star San. Once the bottles has colled just enough to handle from the oven I filled them using my "Little Bottler" device, and capped with crown caps which I'd kept sitting in Star San solution. I siphoned the remaining beer into my King keg which I had thoroughly scrubbed and then filled with Star San, and released much of it out of the tap.
After 7 days conditioning at around 20-22 degrees I stuck one bottle in the fridge for a day, then took it out to warm a little and found it was largely clear. I opened the bottle and although it seemed like it needed longer to condition it was still really good and I drank the whole bottle. Two days later I tried a small sample from my keg and it tasted and smelled awful! I then opened another bottle and it was just as bad!
So it looks like my appalling beer making has struck again, and I really can't see where I've gone wrong this time!! Because I've split the batch between half in the keg and half bottled I guess that rules out having any nasty bacteria in my keg. And yet the beer WAS really good when it came out of the FV, and was REALLY promising from a bottle a week later!
I'm determined not to give up now though! So if anyone can think of a gap in my process I'd really appreciate any help!
Thanks!

 

[Joeyriles]

This is like an episode of House, only with sickly beer as opposed to patients.

I'm afraid I'm stumped, matey. Sounds like you did everything right. Sorry to sound dim but was all of the bottled beer ok?

 

[timcunnell]

This is like an episode of House, only with sickly beer as opposed to patients.

I'm afraid I'm stumped, matey. Sounds like you did everything right. Sorry to sound dim but was all of the bottled beer ok?

Haha I know what you mean! The ONLY thing I can really think of is that I didn't get on board with Star San until after I have started the ferment. So my FV and all paraphernalia was sterilised with VWP, which I have come to think is potentially a bit sub-standard?

On the bottle front - I have basically now opened just two. One (after one week) was absolutely lovely to be fair (at least by my usual low standards!!) although obviously tasted a bit "young". The second bottle a week later tasted like old dish water - exact same taste and smell as what is now coming from beer in the keg.

I must admit that I was pretty lazy with cleaning the bottles. I rinsed them out and in some cases where there was mould I had a scrub with a bottle brush. But I guess I thought the oven treatment would take care of anything else?

I think tonight I will open a few more bottles and see if they are all the same. If some are okay then maybe my bottle cleansing needs work!

What I've done since is prepared and now racked a new brew - a St Peter's Ruby Ale, which looks like it would be a winner if I manage to not ruin in!! I've mostly bottled the whole batch this time, but with this I have run the bottles through the dishwaher first. Then I have had each bottle submerged in Star San for a couple of minutes before pouring out and then immediately filling. Surely this can't go wrong!?!?

 

[Covrich]

Dunno.. try more bottles like you say.. as for mould I recieved some donations which were nouldy I used a brush then filled them with boiling water ... then cleaned again and then they were in storage before being sanitised for use..

THere is nothing which you seem to do which suggests you have made a mistake.. seems like you have it covered..

 

[clibit]

I can't see any issues either. I think if this was happening to me I would be using bleach on my FV and bottles. Maybe buying a new FV. I ditched an FV after a couple of spoiled brews, realised there were scratches inside. Making sure the bottles are all thoroughly clean, a dishwasher won't reliably clean bottles. Siphon tube needs to be very clean too.

I really hope your next brew is good, it's grim when things go wrong and you can't identify the problem. Good luck.

 

[timcunnell]

I can't see any issues either. I think if this was happening to me I would be using bleach on my FV and bottles. Maybe buying a new FV. I ditched an FV after a couple of spoiled brews, realised there were scratches inside. Making sure the bottles are all thoroughly clean, a dishwasher won't reliably clean bottles. Siphon tube needs to be very clean too.

I really hope your next brew is good, it's grim when things go wrong and you can't identify the problem. Good luck.

Thanks mate I really appreciate all the comments and support on here! I think I will definitely get a new FV if this latest brew doesn't work out. I wanted to try bottling partly to rule out my keg being the issue. And now that seems not to be the cause (as bottles are also spoilt) I guess the FV is the next main thing. It seems that the beer is good when it comes out of the FV - but is it possible that the damage could be done, but just not materialised at that stage?

I was given a reasonable well-used FV a while ago which I've been using. It says on it that it is a wine fermenter, and has a screw-on lid just the same as a king-keg lid. I really like it because the lid has a rubber bung with an airlock hole so it works great for getting a good seal etc. But maybe this FV is the cause of all my issues?! Obviously I have given it a really good scrub with a rough sponge and I thought I had it really clean. But something sure ain't right!

To be honest I had pondered that maybe I just have unrealistic expectations and the beer is actually okay. But the two pints of Greene King IPA that I managed to finish last night in my local con club suggest otherwise as they were pretty rank and I still gladly polished them off! The stuff I am turning out - even an old biker who has just been rescued from a week in the Sahara wouldn't touch!

 

[clibit]

The FV sounds most likely to me. For the price of another I'd be replacing it now. Beer can leave your f2f seemingly fine, but any bacteria will feed on the sugars left unfermented by the yeast and multiply.

 

[wheazy_joe]

Agree on the FV, get shot of it! I wouldn't be scrubbing a plastic FV either, small scratches are a breading ground for bacteria.