Basic HERMS Setup

[ochiburi]

When you are brewing a beer that calls for a multi-step mash you get a more accurate to the desired style end-result by using that technique. If you substitute an infusion mash you get a different beer. Note I do not say either is better - thats a matter of taste. However you do NOT get the beer that the recipe designer intended if you change the mash.

Re your other post on electrics, sorry but I must completely disagree. if you are are a qualified electrical engineer you can make your own decisions and fully understand the risks you are running. If not, you should ask one. This is not an area where a bit of internet research can make you an expert. If you are using an stc-1000 to drive your elements you should use a Solid State Relay in between to manage the multiple on/off cycles per second the STC-1000 will command. Fail to do this and your kit will melt down from the heat generation. Even with an SSR you need a really big heatsink to draw off the excess heat. You should also use an RCD as a matter of course to protect you from short circuits because brew systems use lots of stainless steel, copper and water all of which is highly conductive. You have one life and brewing is not as important as life. Of course it is about second most important ;-) Sorry to lecture but there is no margin for error on this stuff.

 

[ManseMasher]

Re your other post on electrics, sorry but I must completely disagree. if you are are a qualified electrical engineer you can make your own decisions and fully understand the risks you are running. If not, you should ask one. This is not an area where a bit of internet research can make you an expert. If you are using an stc-1000 to drive your elements you should use a Solid State Relay in between to manage the multiple on/off cycles per second the STC-1000 will command. Fail to do this and your kit will melt down from the heat generation. Even with an SSR you need a really big heatsink to draw off the excess heat. You should also use an RCD as a matter of course to protect you from short circuits because brew systems use lots of stainless steel, copper and water all of which is highly conductive. You have one life and brewing is not as important as life. Of course it is about second most important ;-) Sorry to lecture but there is no margin for error on this stuff.

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that The Electric Brewing Company use 40A SSR's for this very reason, mounted onto a vaned heatsink with conductive paste in between them. The heat generated I'm sure would frag an STC in very short order. They also state RCD's are a must. Not something I would want running off extension leads either, to be honest.

 

[mirsultankhan]

When you are brewing a beer that calls for a multi-step mash you get a more accurate to the desired style end-result by using that technique. If you substitute an infusion mash you get a different beer. Note I do not say either is better - thats a matter of taste. However you do NOT get the beer that the recipe designer intended if you change the mash.

Re your other post on electrics, sorry but I must completely disagree. if you are are a qualified electrical engineer you can make your own decisions and fully understand the risks you are running. If not, you should ask one. This is not an area where a bit of internet research can make you an expert. If you are using an stc-1000 to drive your elements you should use a Solid State Relay in between to manage the multiple on/off cycles per second the STC-1000 will command. Fail to do this and your kit will melt down from the heat generation. Even with an SSR you need a really big heatsink to draw off the excess heat. You should also use an RCD as a matter of course to protect you from short circuits because brew systems use lots of stainless steel, copper and water all of which is highly conductive. You have one life and brewing is not as important as life. Of course it is about second most important ;-) Sorry to lecture but there is no margin for error on this stuff.

Thanks for your concerns but if I need electrical advice I ask my father who has been a qualified electrical engineer for more than fifty years. A 2.2KW element @240V draws 9.16 amps, the STC-1000 is safely rated at 10amps. Why are you saying that it will suffer overheating and meltdown?

 

[mirsultankhan]

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that The Electric Brewing Company use 40A SSR's for this very reason, mounted onto a vaned heatsink with conductive paste in between them. The heat generated I'm sure would frag an STC in very short order. They also state RCD's are a must. Not something I would want running off extension leads either, to be honest.

a 2.2KW element @240V draws 9.16 amps why would you need a 40amp solid state relay and heat sink? why would anyone have a problem running that on a system with the capacity to handle four 13amp elements like an extension lead?

 

[ManseMasher]

I believe it is more to do with the fact that there can be rapid switching, rather than the current that is drawn, which can cause electrical relays to fail. An SSR is better suited to this. Why do they use 40A SSR's? Possibly because they use bigger elements is all I can think. Whatever the size of element there will be an SSR for the correct current rating. Why would anyone have a problem running that on an extension lead with the capacity to handle four 13A elements? The extension lead might have the capacity to handle it, but does the single socket that it is plugged in to, or the mains to that socket? Every case will be different obviously, I know what my garage ring main is rated to, and I know what I can comfortably (safely) run off it. I have experienced first hand the results of an overloaded socket (not by my doing but the guy in the next room in a house share). If we had all been smashed that night, as most of us were, it could have had a very different (and nasty) ending.

 

[ochiburi]

a 2.2KW element @240V draws 9.16 amps why would you need a 40amp solid state relay and heat sink? why would anyone have a problem running that on a system with the capacity to handle four 13amp elements like an extension lead?

:nono:

A four gang extension lead rated to 13amps does not have the capacity to run 4 x 2.2KW elements. Just 2 elements would cause that lead to exceed its safety limits. It has the capacity to have 4 things plugged into it whose total concurrent amperage does not exceed 13amps. IE The total = 13, not 4 x 13.

MSK, my comments on here are out of concern for your SAFETY and also for the safety of other readers. My worry with some of the things you write is that because this is an open forum on brewing, other people will read your posts and think "OK so if this guy runs 4 x 2.2KW elements off an extension cable, so can I" then their house burns down. Or think they can directly connect elements to PID units without SSRs, or not use RCD protected circuits: they end up running some very serious risks, because some guy on forum said he does it that way. Don't take my word for it - please do ask your dad. Read what others have done. Be SAFE.

 

[mirsultankhan]

:nono:

A four gang extension lead rated to 13amps does not have the capacity to run 4 x 2.2KW elements. Just 2 elements would cause that lead to exceed its safety limits. It has the capacity to have 4 things plugged into it whose total concurrent amperage does not exceed 13amps. IE The total = 13, not 4 x 13.

MSK, my comments on here are out of concern for your SAFETY and also for the safety of other readers. My worry with some of the things you write is that because this is an open forum on brewing, other people will read your posts and think "OK so if this guy runs 4 x 2.2KW elements off an extension cable, so can I" then their house burns down. Or think they can directly connect elements to PID units without SSRs, or not use RCD protected circuits: they end up running some very serious risks, because some guy on forum said he does it that way. Don't take my word for it - please do ask your dad. Read what others have done. Be SAFE.

No one has claimed it has. What was actually claimed was that it presented a danger to a single 2.2kw element drawing a mere 9 amps on a socket that is rated to take 13 amps. The idea that it presents a problem cannot be empirically established by any scientific method and is infact quite ludicrous. I have not advocated running 4 X 2.2KW elements on an extension lead and I resent the insinuation that I have. The fact is that any domestic extension lead is rated at 13amps which cannot be exceeded. Even using two 2.2KW elements on an extension lead would not be advisable because it would draw 18 amps on a piece of equipment rated for only thirteen.

I understand your concerns but i have to be honest they cannot be scientifically substantiated. It is physically impossible for an element rated at 2.2Kw @240 volts that draws 9.12 amps to exceed that limit. An STC-1000 is rated at 10 amps, with probably a tolerance which exceeds that. There is no necessity to utilize another relay, the idea that the STC-1000 will suffer meltdown is ludicrous. As long as those STC-1000's are independently switched on two separate sockets on a 30 AMP rated domestic ring circuit there is NO DANGER of anything happening that you have stipulated.

Adios I am finished here.

 

[ManseMasher]

Move along please, nothing to see here......!!!