Boil Time

[cornyandy]

Hi all

So as I have mentioned a few times I use the 1st edition Wheeler "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" for much of my brewing and when I design a brew I go from profiles learned from that book.

I am not really into milds I prefer bitters, old ales and stouts (and incidentally am getting into APA's)

Now in this version the boil times for the aforementioned bitters, old ales and stouts is 2 hours. MM the other day asked why the seemingly to him extended boil. My reply was that that is what I had always done. I now have to admit to being confused about boil times. Some people seem to be going for an hour which based on my experience and reading seems low.

Could anyone enlighten me as to the way to go. I will continue to use the 2 hours recommended in the book I have because I trust it but what happens next month when I buy the Greg Hughes book.

(Manse don't infer any criticism I am just a bit confused)

Cheers

A

 

[Slid]

Hi all

So as I have mentioned a few times I use the 1st edition Wheeler "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" for much of my brewing and when I design a brew I go from profiles learned from that book.

I am not really into milds I prefer bitters, old ales and stouts (and incidentally am getting into APA's)

Now in this version the boil times for the aforementioned bitters, old ales and stouts is 2 hours. MM the other day asked why the seemingly to him extended boil. My reply was that that is what I had always done. I now have to admit to being confused about boil times. Some people seem to be going for an hour which based on my experience and reading seems low.

Could anyone enlighten me as to the way to go. I will continue to use the 2 hours recommended in the book I have because I trust it but what happens next month when I buy the Greg Hughes book.

(Manse don't infer any criticism I am just a bit confused)

Cheers

A

A single hour suffices for modern tastes and time pressures.

 

[MyQul]

I have the third edition and all the boil times are 90 mins. I just boil for 60 mins and adjust the hop addition.Never had any problems You could do this for the first edition boil times too based on my understanding of the reason for the boil

Afaik, the reason for the boil is

a) Santise the wort. Seeing a though you only need 15 mins to sanitise you dont need 2 hours
b) Isomerize the hops. As I understand it after two hours of boiling no more isomerization happens but you can simply adjust your hop addition (add more hops) for a shorter boil (even as short as 15 mins if your an extract brewer) to get more IBU's
c) boil off DMS which supposedly gives a cooked corn off flavour to your beer if you dont boil it off. Brulosophy did a 30 min boil experment based on this and couldn't detect any DMS. I think the theory is that nowadays malt is better modulated so doesn't cause DMS
http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/11/the-impact-of-boil-length-ale-exbeeriment-results/
d) A longer boil makes for more stable wort and therefore a longer packaged shelf life. This reason for the boil is new to me. It's mentioned in the comments section of the above brulosophy experiment. I plan on a little experiment of my own based on this

At a guess, the reason that boil lengths are 2 hours in the first edition is either based on point b. After two hours of boiling no more hop isomerization happens or may be two hours was chosen because,afaik, you can almost guarentee the hot break with a longer boil even if you don't get a good rolling boil

 

[cornyandy]

Thanks Gents.

 

[MyQul]

I have the third edition and all the boil times are 90 mins. I just boil for 60 mins and adjust the hop addition.Never had any problems You could do this for the first edition boil times too based on my understanding of the reason for the boil

Afaik, the reason for the boil is

a) Santise the wort. Seeing a though you only need 15 mins to sanitise you dont need 2 hours
b) Isomerize the hops. As I understand it after two hours of boiling no more isomerization happens but you can simply adjust your hop addition (add more hops) for a shorter boil (even as short as 15 mins if your an extract brewer) to get more IBU's
c) boil off DMS which supposedly gives a cooked corn off flavour to your beer if you dont boil it off. Brulosophy did a 30 min boil experment based on this and couldn't detect any DMS. I think the theory is that nowadays malt is better modulated so doesn't cause DMS
http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/11/the-impact-of-boil-length-ale-exbeeriment-results/
d) A longer boil makes for more stable wort and therefore a longer packaged shelf life. This reason for the boil is new to me. It's mentioned in the comments section of the above brulosophy experiment. I plan on a little experiment of my own based on this

At a guess, the reason that boil lengths are 2 hours in the first edition is either based on point b. After two hours of boiling no more hop isomerization happens or may be two hours was chosen because,afaik, you can almost guarentee the hot break with a longer boil even if you don't get a good rolling boil

Whilst I'm speculating on the reason for the two hour boil...

Whenever I'm making a recipe from BYOBRA and put the hop additions into brew mate they never tally up and I have to make adjustments. I think the reason for this is even though I have the 3rd Ed. many of the recipes are from the 1st which is about 20 years old. I think back then hop utilization was much lower than it is now. So may be this is (another) reason for the two hour boil, to extract as much from the hops as possible, as it was harder to do so then?

 

[cornyandy]

I hope things haven't changed that much in terms of hop utilisation or I have got two very bitter brews in their FV's :shock: We'll see. I do know that the original book does seem to use less hops for a given IBU so perhaps Wheeler was trying to get the most from them (and I don't even think he's a Yorkshire man)

 

[ManseMasher]

'Manse don't infer any criticism I am just a bit confused'

No worries I don't see it as criticism! I've just done a kit from HBC - their instructions were for a 60 minute boil. Just looked through Greg Hughes' recipes, pretty much all are either 60 or 70 minutes. The longest I've done is 90 minutes, but most of mine are an hour (but I'm a skinflint - like to save on gas!).
All I can think is, as others have said, maybe it's down to 'progress'.

 

[cornyandy]

'Manse don't infer any criticism I am just a bit confused'

No worries I don't see it as criticism! I've just done a kit from HBC - their instructions were for a 60 minute boil. Just looked through Greg Hughes' recipes, pretty much all are either 60 or 70 minutes. The longest I've done is 90 minutes, but most of mine are an hour (but I'm a skinflint - like to save on gas!).
All I can think is, as others have said, maybe it's down to 'progress'.

Cheers mate.

 

[McMullan]

I've always gone for a 90min boil. Seems to work me. If you're aiming to hit targets, you might adjust the time based on your set up and rate of boil off/evaporation. MyQul, considering your point B, have you tried first wort hopping?

 

[MyQul]

I hope things haven't changed that much in terms of hop utilisation or I have got two very bitter brews in their FV's :shock: We'll see. I do know that the original book does seem to use less hops for a given IBU so perhaps Wheeler was trying to get the most from them (and I don't even think he's a Yorkshire man)

That will only happen if you just added the same amount of hops as stated in the book without considering the AA% of your hops and the AA% table in the back of the book. I only really find that the AA% is a few IBU's lower than the brew mate caculation (I have my Hop IBU calculation set on Tinseth)

 

[cornyandy]

I should be okay the AA's (that Alpha Acids) of the new hops I got were within a whisker of what the recipe calls for. They are clone brews but I am not worried if there is some variance as long as the beer is good.