Boiling Hops in water as though it was wort.

[Frisp]

I couldnt work out which forum this belongs in so I plumped for general brewing..

I am about to do an experiment, kinda after the Dr Hans Shake and brew thing, where In going to use 2.5Kg of DME but NOT boil it.

BUT the recipe im following had Hops at 30, 15 and 0 mins of boil.

Soo Im thinking
Take 5L of the liquor, DONT add any DME and just boil the hops at 30,15 and 0 mins, cool it and add it straight to teh fermenter and Dme. Like a Hop tea but more structured..

Will this work? or not?

 

[jof]

I don't know how good the results will be, but it will be beerish.

But I have read similar recipes in old home brew books from the 60s, where they did the boil using hops & crystal / dark malts. (Those for flavour & colour without starch). Then they would add a mix of malt extract & sugar.

I think 2.5kg of DME is quite expensive for experimenting, usually people experiment with demijohn sized batches (I think 2l pop bottle experiments are maybe too small), so you could get several tries out of your DME

 

[fluketamer]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/hops-boiled-in-water-then-added-to-the-wort.426236
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-to-get-the-hop-tea-method-right.730290/

its possible but very inefficient and hard to calculate. your best bet would be trial and error with small batches.

theres a ton of no boil threads.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/no-boil-dme-brew-suggestions.669226/
i know there is a good recipe in the thread below for no boil beer.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/no-boil-homebrew.723461/

 

[Cwrw666]

Not sure I understand this. Isn't malt extract already boiled by the manufacturer? So why would it need boiling again?
In ye olden days one can kits all told you to boil the can contents but in more recent years they've said to just dilute it with warm water.
This is not the same as making unboiled raw ale where you mash your grains then don't boil the wort.

 

[MashBag]

I couldnt work out which forum this belongs in so I plumped for general brewing..

I am about to do an experiment, kinda after the Dr Hans Shake and brew thing, where In going to use 2.5Kg of DME but NOT boil it.

BUT the recipe im following had Hops at 30, 15 and 0 mins of boil.

Soo Im thinking
Take 5L of the liquor, DONT add any DME and just boil the hops at 30,15 and 0 mins, cool it and add it straight to teh fermenter and Dme. Like a Hop tea but more structured..

Will this work? or not?

It does work. I have used it to correct brews after fermentation. You can also extract hop oils in warm vodka.

 

[MashBag]

Not sure I understand this. Isn't malt extract already boiled by the manufacturer? So why would it need boiling again?
In ye olden days one can kits all told you to boil the can contents but in more recent years they've said to just dilute it with warm water.
This is not the same as making unboiled raw ale where you mash your grains then don't boil the wort.

Boil everything faster, faster, longer, quicker again and again....except you don't need to IME.

 

[Frisp]

To clarify Im not going to boil the DME, Im proposing making a Hop tea over a 30 minute boil period to mimic the exttraction form the hops Id get if I were boiling them in wort not water.

Plan is mix up the DME i the fermenter and add my hop tea.

I think 2.5kg of DME is quite expensive for experimenting

I have the DME on order Brew-Day and its no more expensive than a Kit. I may dial the batch size back to half and use the remaining DME elsewhere.

 

[Frisp]

Just had my answer from some of the links above, It seems the Hops need sugars to properly Isometrise. so some of the DME will be getting boiled with the hops.

 

[Sandimas]

Just had my answer from some of the links above, It seems the Hops need sugars to properly Isometrise. so some of the DME will be getting boiled with the hops.

Absolutely. When I did Full Extract brews you'd usually put half the DME in at the start of the boil to help the hops work, then half at the end to prevent the brew getting darker than planned.

 

[MashBag]

Just had my answer from some of the links above, It seems the Hops need sugars to properly Isometrise. so some of the DME will be getting boiled with the hops.

What concentration of sugar do you need? I ask because I cannot find it.

 

[Frisp]

What concentration of sugar do you need? I ask because I cannot find it.

i couldnt find anything definitive. but Ill follow Sandimas,s suggestion

I did Full Extract brews you'd usually put half the DME in at the start of the boil to help the hops work, then half at the end to prevent the brew getting darker than planned

Im following a Pilsner extract recipe I found online, but as Im the only one drinking it I shant worry if it darkens a little.

 

[MrRook]

If you're going to boil for 30 minutes anyway you might as well boil some of the extract.

 

[fluketamer]

theres a lot going on in this thread with a lot of concepts and controversial ideas.

in general we boil dme with hops to get the hop oils out of the hops and into the beer.
the only reason i ever saw to not boil beer is for time reasons.
thus i switched to HME kits for many many years.

however these kits get better with steeped grains ( Steeping Grains for Extract Beer Brewing)
and with hop teas as stated above. i have even used them in partial mashes where they work great for bittering an unhopped boiled liquor. then added dry hops or whirlpooled hops for flavor but at that point there is no benefit of time. once you start adding hop teas, and steeped grains to these kits its no longer 15 min brew day and its closer to 1 hour extract boils. and those kits are much cheeper than any muntons or coopers or MJ's. kits. . once you start mashing base malts for these kits you might as well be doing partial mash BIAB on a stove top. whcih although taste great are a ton of work and take hours compared to adding a gallon of water to a can of HME.

if you are going to boil your hops for any amount of time you might as well boil them in at least some DME. youll get better use of the hops . why do you not want tpo boil the dme. if its because of color or twang try late addition. if your dme is fresh which is likely(DME has a long shelf life if kept dry- prolly the longest of all ) if its not a kit and the seller is reputable then there wont be twang.

brewers friend has optionsm for late addition and short boil.

if you are looking for fast brewing try shake n brew (i have heard of mix results)

try 30 min amarillo pale ale.

heres a 15 min cascade ale:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/15-minute-cascade-pale-ale.210253/
i forgot who gave me this recipe but its a great very quick brew day. and makes great beer


6 lbs breiss golden light dme
1 oz magnum hops
2 packs of 34/70 or 1 cup of 3470 slurry from last batch

(the dme, hops and yeast can be varied to suit your taste)
optional .... add 1 lb rice syrup solids or dextrose to bump abv and dry the beer out

Boil 3 gal filtered water, add hops, remove from flame and stir in at least 1 lb dme. return to boil and boil for ONLY 20 mins. At last 5 min remaining, add the remaining dme and , if using, the rice syrup solids or dextrose.

Cool the wort, use ice cold water(36 degrees) to bring the volume to 5 gal and the temp to pitchimg range. (this is a great advantage to speed up extract brewing. use ice cold top up water instead of chilling the wort in ice bath or with chiller. ) , oxygenate, pitch the yeast and place in your fermentation chamber.

Note: 20 min boil is enough.


in brewersfriend with a 20 min 3 gallon boil with 1 lb of dme and 1 oz of hops pellets makes this theoreticlly around 25 ibus.

this is a great short brew day beer.

 

[Frisp]

Boil 3 gal filtered water, add hops, remove from flame and stir in at least 1 lb dme. return to boil and boil for ONLY 20 mins. At last 5 min remaining, add the remaining dme and , if using, the rice syrup solids or dextrose.

Cool the wort, use ice cold water(36 degrees) to bring the volume to 5 gal and the temp to pitchimg range. (this is a great advantage to speed up extract brewing. use ice cold top up water instead of chilling the wort in ice bath or with chiller. ) , oxygenate, pitch the yeast and place in your fermentation chamber.

Note: 20 min boil is enough.


in brewersfriend with a 20 min 3 gallon boil with 1 lb of dme and 1 oz of hops pellets makes this theoreticlly around 25 ibus.

This is the detail im after re Extract brewing

Im experienced enough in Ag brewing and im heading back there eventually. In the meantime im dabbling in Kits (coopers) and this wee Pilsner using Muntons Xtra light DME.

I have no experience, however, using DME hence my question can I boil hops in water ?

Time is not an issue , however brewpot capacity currently is. Until I sort out a 35L AG HLT/MT/Kettle and an immersion chiller, I have to rely on a 13LSSS pot. So my plan was to mix the Dme and add it to the fermenter without boiling.

Now I have your post I will follow your method and make adjustments for hops in brewfather..

This brew is a bit of a side experiment following on from my post on Homebrew whiff / twang. the main gig will be the coopers stout discussed on that thread

 

[fluketamer]

coopers stout is really amazing prolly the best kit . it conditions really well in the bottle too. the longer the better.

and with a pound of steeped chocolate you get the coffee chocolately raostiness that the kit is lacking a little bit . def doesnt need hops. make it to 5 gallons. the kit yeast is fine.

this recipe is very popular on the boards here :
1 can coopers irish stout.
500g dark spray malt.
600g golden syrup.
100g dark muscavado sugar.
1 dessert spoon of treacle.
and 3 shots of strong fresh ground coffee.

some of the ways i have tweaked the cooopers klits

at bottling add vanilla flavoring, amaretto, chocolate, oak chips in vodka, in kettle: boiled pb2 or chocolate pb2 or dark cocoa powder


for extract brewing this is a good thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/advanced-extract-brewing.426031/
for kit pimping the kit forum here has countless threads on everything re kits.

this zamba lager from a coopers kit is the best hop forward beer i have ever made. its a real pain in the ass with multiple expensive ingredients . i cant seem to duplicate it in AG im still working on it almost there.
zamba lager (4.5 gallons)
1 can of coopers lager
4 oz maltodextrin
3 oz brewers crystals
4 oz carapils
4 oz flaked corn
1 oz zamba hops
12 oz golden light dme
diamond lager yeast

put two 1 gallon spring water jugs in the freezer. you will need cold water to cool down the wort you are not using ice bath or wort chiller.

bring 12 to 16 cups of water to 160 deg. steep 4 oz flaked corn and 4 oz carapils for 30 mins at 155 - 160 . sparge with 2 cups of hot water.
while grains steep dissolve 4 oz of maltodextrin and 3 oz of brewers crystals in 1 qt of cool water. Brewers crystals are dextrose corn syrups solids and malto dextrin i think.
when the steep is done and sparged, bring the grain water to a boil and add .25 ounces of zamba hops. i love zamba it has a melon flovor that works great for summer lagers. but you could use any citrusy low alpha hop. boil for 5 mins remove from heat and at flameout add . 75 oz zamba hops. ,12 oz of golden light dme, the brewers crystal/ MD solution, and one 4 lb can of coopers lager .

add water to top up to 2.5 gallons and temper wort so as not to pour boiling liquid into 5 gallon pail.

add 40 degree icewater from freezer to bring vol to 4.5 and temperature down to 68 deg. pitch lager yeast. i use lalbrew diamond lager yeast . i usually give it a day at 65 to 70 to really get a good kreusen before i drop temp down to 50's.

it spits al lot of sulfur which i havent had a problem with in the final product. ferment cold 54 to 59 deg. for 10 days then DAR for 4 days then keg.

 

[geoffkellett]

Not sure I understand this. Isn't malt extract already boiled by the manufacturer? So why would it need boiling again?
In ye olden days one can kits all told you to boil the can contents but in more recent years they've said to just dilute it with warm water.
This is not the same as making unboiled raw ale where you mash your grains then don't boil the wort.