As having lived through the pre and post CAMERA era seeing is not believing and trying out estimating your taste and value means in this day and age the abv means more than the price. As we say something for nothing , unless on clearance cannot be believed. Having been to LIDL today and picked up a very nice Marstons Old Empire IPA abv 5.7 at ã1.25 and my reason for joining this forum a the Hatherwood Winter warmer at abv 5.5 99p both of which are good tasting ales and the Hatherwood exceptional in body taste and flavour. As a beer drinker of many many years I find the good breweries and beers are remembered as are the thin badly named ones , from Mega monster breweries.
Craft Beer or crafty labelling?
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MickDundee
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That's what they did with Blue Moon isn't it? Although that's probably the whole point of you using that example!calumscott said:It's a complete non-debate I'm afraid.
The term probably came from the states, yes, but it certainly would not have been as a replacement term for "real ale", well not as we would know it - there are more people who have been to space than beer engines in the USA...
That seems pretty close to the mark to me.
Regardless, it's as much a nonsense as "real ale". CAMRA and the "official" "real ale" definition served a purpose at one point in history because there was just so much sh*te out there. The definition is now bent to the will of the mega-corps brewers who stick to the letter of the "real ale" law to produce the lowest common denominator "real" ale they possibly can, nice and bland for the masses, nice and cheap to produce and riding on the back of what was once a mark of quality to gain the biggest market share and margin for the shareholders.
"Real ale" defines not just a narrow band of manufacture, package and service of beer but also the problem with definitions. As soon as you define it, you provide the gateway to abuse the definition.
Craft beer as we have known it was about the good stuff that didn't necessarily fit the real ale definition either in style, manufacture, package or service but was, of its own right, damn good beer.
Not now the marketeers have their hands on it.
It is an intractable problem. Unless the definition is suitably tight it is open to abuse. Unless the definition is suitably loose it stifles the creativity and innovation that defined it in the first place.
Size of brewery? Won't work. Coors will just run "craft sh*te brewers ltd" as a small output brewery in an industrial unit as a wholely owned subsidiary.
Independently brewed? Says nothing for the quality of the final product.
Artisan brewed? What defines an artisan? Big brewers will just pay big money to hire an artisan to oversee...
Finest ingredients? Ha! Its all the same stuff!
The reality is quite simply that whatever term and definition goes behind it, the big boys will abuse it.
The various assertions that craft beer has greater meaning in the US is also nonsense - Anheuser Busch have plenty of "craft beer" on the market, kind of proving that last point.
Real ale lives on, fat, lazy, geriatric and drawing a generous pension from Greene King and the other big factories. Craft beer is now on the inexorable wane into the marketing mush of the big factories too.
There is only one way to ensure the success and future of decent beer and that's to cut through the marketing **** and only buy from the real independent brewers of interesting and quality beer.
Instead of SIBA or the CBA wasting efforts on definitions which will be hijacked anyway, focussing their efforts on promoting transparency in the market would be a far better use their time. Allow the customer to choose what sort of brewery and what sort of ethic is behind their beer.
Big bold and brash they may be, but I'll take a brash, showy, but honest-about-it Brewdog beer over some mass produced lowest common denominator p*sswater brewed by a fake brewery (even if that is Wychwood who actually do know how to make a craft beer) for the cheapest price any day of the week.
Shame on Wychwood, an otherwise excellent brewery.
Where was this quote taken from?
MickDundee
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I have no idea. I think something went a bit crazy with this thread - I was definitely relying to someone!
Notlaw
Dubbel Dragon
I was thinking the same thing. There was more to this thread, I'm sure. Might have been merged from another or split into something else.
I will hold my hand up, i was trying to move the posts out of a very old thread into the new one and i fecked it up. 
I gave myself a severe bollocking. :lol:
sponge_
Dungeon O' Sponge Brewery
Sounds more like a reward than a punishment :)
